Ram Air Intake Scoop on Hood
I want a small scoop on my hood directly above an air box that seals to the hood from the inside such that I get COLD RAM AIR. I know most would generically not like the looks of this, but my concern is more functional. That said, I'd like it to look as good as possible.
Would such a direct flow of air be hazardous to the filter (water or debris)? Anyone seen a setup like this? Pics? Testimonials? Where can I get a scoop that might fit the FD look? Could an existing cold air box be modified for this purpose? No need to debate the effectiveness of cold air on IAT. Been there done that in other threads.:o: |
The sealed airbox your suggesting, while functional in design becomes more of a hinderance at speed. When you fill up a air box with velocity pressurized air like that it eventually fills, then a hig pressure area forms right infront of the scoop itself. Once the enigine suckes in enough air to reduce the pressure the cycle starts all over again(it actually can get to near vacuum at times depending on speed and a ton of other variables). It creates a pulsing effect that can have an ill effect on performance as well as aerodynamics. The F1 guys have spent alot of time developing airboxes with sort of trap doors that will keep the pressure constant and optimized at all the speed their cars travel at.
Your idea would be great if you didn't seal the box. I'd suggest just an open air fillament with a heat shield that makes them only suck air from around the radiator. |
The stock, Racing Beat, and PFS intakes all get air rammed into them from the front of the car. The turbos get plenty of cold air (well, with the Racing Beat and PFS setups anyway). Why destroy your hood with a nasty looking off-center scoop .in the hopes of gaining a few more hp at high speeds?
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Easy, do what I did. Put the filter under a non popup headlight and remove the combo light. You'll have to cut a little sheet metal to make the opening large enough for a 3" tube or whatever size you use. Your opening is then at the leading edge of the front of the car, a far better option than up on the front of the hood which is actually a lower pressure area. No real visual impact either.
Kevin T. Wyum |
The Feed fresh air headlight cover here http://www.jt-imports.com/FEED_FD_Parts_List.htm or the Border NASA air ducts set here http://www.jt-imports.com/Border_FD_Aero_Kits.htm may compliment a heat shielded intake kit like one FDreaming suggested.
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Originally posted by FDreaming The sealed airbox your suggesting, while functional in design becomes more of a hinderance at speed. When you fill up a air box with velocity pressurized air like that it eventually fills, then a hig pressure area forms right infront of the scoop itself. Once the enigine suckes in enough air to reduce the pressure the cycle starts all over again(it actually can get to near vacuum at times depending on speed and a ton of other variables). It creates a pulsing effect that can have an ill effect on performance as well as aerodynamics. The F1 guys have spent alot of time developing airboxes with sort of trap doors that will keep the pressure constant and optimized at all the speed their cars travel at. Your idea would be great if you didn't seal the box. I'd suggest just an open air fillament with a heat shield that makes them only suck air from around the radiator. |
Originally posted by rynberg The stock, Racing Beat, and PFS intakes all get air rammed into them from the front of the car. The turbos get plenty of cold air (well, with the Racing Beat and PFS setups anyway). Why destroy your hood with a nasty looking off-center scoop .in the hopes of gaining a few more hp at high speeds? |
Originally posted by Kevin T. Wyum Easy, do what I did. Put the filter under a non popup headlight and remove the combo light. You'll have to cut a little sheet metal to make the opening large enough for a 3" tube or whatever size you use. Your opening is then at the leading edge of the front of the car, a far better option than up on the front of the hood which is actually a lower pressure area. No real visual impact either. Kevin T. Wyum |
Originally posted by scarhart94FD The Feed fresh air headlight cover here http://www.jt-imports.com/FEED_FD_Parts_List.htm or the Border NASA air ducts set here http://www.jt-imports.com/Border_FD_Aero_Kits.htm may compliment a heat shielded intake kit like one FDreaming suggested. |
Does anyone want to comment on the fact that you can't "ram" air into a forced induction engine, or shall I? :D
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Anyone ever seen Vinny Ten's hood on his Supra. He has a hole in his hood so that you can actually see his turbo from the outside. He doesn't even have a filter on there since he's just dragging. The air is guided right into his compressor by the hood
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Originally posted by widebody2 The air is guided right into his compressor by the hood The only benefit of this arrangement is that it's drawing directly from ambient air and not underhood air. |
Jimlab is right
There are factors that limit the amount of air that comes in - Some can be improved, i.e. by improving the way the air comes in removing possible hinderances (ps. pipes with corners - the manufacturer might have put these in for noise restriction etc etc.) - but there is a limit to this, and the only other improvement factor is guetting cooler air in (ambient vs. underhood) |
Originally posted by jimlab Does anyone want to comment on the fact that you can't "ram" air into a forced induction engine, or shall I? :D Right?:confused: |
Higher inlet side pressure means the turbos have to do less work to obtain the limit boost level, and below that value higher inlet pressure should provide higher boost pressure.
So, I agree with you. |
I think Jim LaBreck summed it up nicely.
In addition: The headlight scoops offered by some vendors are more for looks, as the opening is too small to do any real good. The "remove the foam next to the radiator" trick offers an opening that is larger than the turbo inlets (i.e.- the pipes going from the airbox...), therefore works in terms of not offering a restriction. So a sealed airbox will work just fine. Cheers, |
Originally posted by DaveW Higher inlet side pressure means the turbos have to do less work to obtain the limit boost level, and below that value higher inlet pressure should provide higher boost pressure. So, I agree with you. While removing all restriction in front of the turbo (i.e. no intake piping, no filter) will allow it to spool as quickly as it possibly can (assuming the exhaust system is not a restriction either), it will not allow any additional air past the compressor wheel than it can ingest at a given rpm. You may hit your boost level sooner because of the lack of restriction, but unless you change boost level physically with a controller or wastegate spring, you're not going to see an increase in boost level. In other words, you can starve a turbo with restrictions in the intake path, but you can't feed it more than it can eat at a given rpm, even with no restriction whatsoever. You can only make it reach that rpm sooner. "Ram air" works on naturally aspirated engines because they have to rely on cylinder/chamber vacuum to fill themselves. If you can pressurize the intake path even slightly by using the vehicle's movement to "ram" air in to the intake, you may see an increase in power because you're filling each cylinder more completely on each cycle. However, if you place a mechanical restriction (turbocharger, supercharger) in the intake path between the outside air and the engine, there is no "ram air" effect possible from the intake arrangement. Obviously a turbocharger or supercharger also forces air into the engine, but the vehicle's movement is not a requirement, so it is not, by definition, "ram air". Bottom line, you can have a "cold air" intake on any type of car, but you can only have a "cold ram air" intake on a naturally aspirated car. If the car is turbocharged or supercharged, all you've got is a "cold air" intake with very little restriction. The term "ram air" no longer applies. |
Originally posted by jimlab While removing all restriction in front of the turbo (i.e. no intake piping, no filter) will allow it to spool as quickly as it possibly can (assuming the exhaust system is not a restriction either), it will not allow any additional air past the compressor wheel than it can ingest at a given rpm. Anyways, just FYI :) I plan to do a setup similar to what Kevin described, but am still attempting to save up enough money to buy the needed sleek lights. I'll definitely post pictures when I get around to it. FD seeker, I would also advise not placing the intake source on your hood. |
Damian also made a pretty nice ram air intake using dryer ducting and some piece its connected inside his heat shiel. Pretty dam nice if you ask me. Search for it.
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intakes aside, would it be beneficial at speed to create some kind of ducting from a nacel inlet in the front of the hood (similar to the Scoot design) to push more air through the venting on the IC? i'm assuming yes, but has it been done to any success yet?
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here go read all of this fd seeker will help you out alot. http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0629/article.html
read 1 rigth to the end of 5. it inforative. joel |
Thanks all for the input.
Jim: I appreciate your technical definition of ram air. I can live with omitting that specific designation from the description of my idea, but I think that concept needs to remain as it provides benefits that you mentioned yourself. Because of the buffeting problem mentioned, I will probably not purse this anyway. |
Just cuz I own a firebird I get to make this comment. There is no such thing as "Ram air" even trans am owners know this. The Ram air system on a trans am only added horsepower because it accomplished the same things as a cold air intake with improved piping. If you want I'll dig up a scientific article on why "ram air" is impossible.
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Originally posted by FD Seeker Jim: I appreciate your technical definition of ram air. "Ram air" only works on naturally aspirated engines, and only when the vehicle is in motion. Using that term to refer to an intake on a forced induction car is not only technically incorrect, it makes you look like you picked up all your car knowledge from watching The Fast and the Furious. Are you with me now? :D |
You did not say so BUT if you were planing on using the stock air box another problem is that in the stock airbox the TOP of the filter is the CLEAN side, So you need to ram the air in from the bottom.
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