Quick Question before making my first FD purchase
 

I'm about to buy a FD (this weekend) with 88,000 miles with no rebuild on it yet. I am wondering/worried about how much more longer it will last before a rebuild is needed. I am also wondering if there are any other details I should be asking for.

Details:

The car has been well maintained with regular oil changes. Radiator and alternator has been replaced within the last 3 years. For 8 years of its life it has been garaged and not driven except for once in a while. Right now it is being driven roughly around 4 to 5 times a month. Owner said there is a minor oil leak which was stated by the dealership last time he has it serviced. Small amount of smoke comes out at start up only if it has been sitting for a long period of time and if driven or turned on regularly there are no indication of smoke at all.

Thanks,

Dave

He is selling it at the right time. Adjust your buying price to reflect what will soon be $5000 of rebuild work. Have a nice day.

Oh yea I forgot to mention that it is completely stock.

Why is it the right time for him to sell? :scratch:

Seals can go at anytime with this mileage and age. It does'nt mean major engine damage but it does mean major rebuild soon. No one here has a crystal ball but if they did, the faint image of white smoke would start appearing.

Impactwrench makes a great point. My coolant seal went at 60k with very good maintainence and my car was well taken care of, and yes your looking at 4-5k for just the rebuild not to mention if the turbos need to be replaced. These cars are getting older and things need to be replaced simply do to age, no matter how well they have been taken care of. The other thing to think about is: Who will do the work. Most people on this forum know and enjoy working on these cars themselves, which can save time and money since the number of qualified mechanics are limited. Are you going to learn how to do things yourself or do you have a good rotary shop near. By the way don't take the dealers word for anything, have it checked over by someone who knows these cars. RX7.com and I'm sure a few other good one are in Texas.

Good Luck

FWIW I have seen original motors go 100k+ miles. Depends how hard it is driven and how well it was maintained and a little bit of luck probably helps.

Go t the FAQ thread and read the Buyer's Guide. Everything you need is there. Get a compression test done since there are places local to you that can do the test. RX7.com / Rotary Performance is a great place.

Good luck.

If I had to do a rebuild I was going to take it to Rotary Performance, which is about 15 miles away from where I live. All other things I can do myself minus transmission work.

Are there any other things I should check before I buy it?

+1 What impactwrench said

Check that it's boosting 10-8-10. If it's not, don't be fooled by the 'non-sequential' mod that's popular with FDs that are for sale.

The more likely reason for the 'non-sequential' mode is that they couldn't figure out how to fix the sequential system. Mazda dealers can't even figure that out.

Oh, and set aside about $3k for new turbos that are about at the end of their lifespan.

Hope I didn't discourage you :)

ima add my 2 cents worth, these guys are right I have had mine for 2 years and it came with a booklet of receipts for rebuilds and pm(preventative maintenence) stuff....I also am a tech for MBZ so like most of the people here I enjoy the work and challenge to learn new stuff myself, and like on any vehicle seals can go at any given moment in time, I have installed brand new transmissions and had them leak hours later, i.e. they get manufactured put on a shelf and sit and the seals get hard and crack from sitting, BY ALL MEANS BY THE CAR!!!! but be prepared to spend some $$$$ its like a hobby, wouldnt be worth it without the work and until you do everything yourself or while you own the car, there is no real way todetermine if components are good........and if you end up seeing white smoke I recommend the HD coolant seals from pineappleracing.com, and if turbos need to be rebuilt and your up to the challenge(not too difficult) gpopshop.com has the kits in stock(hitachi ht-12 turbos) or I have a set in my garage $100+shipping(hahaha)!!! Good Luck!!!

At least gas is cheap now! LOL

and post some pics !!!!

Thanks for all the great advice. I dont mind spending some money to maintain and rebuild it and the main purpose of me getting the Rx-7 was to have it more so of a weekend/every once in a while car since I have a 2004.5 VW Jetta GLI as a daily. I just wanted to get a heads up on how soon I would have to rebuild it. If I go through with the purchase, I have planned on installing all the gauges first (Vac/Boost, Oil Pressure, Water Temp, Oil Temp, Air/Fuel), which I already have laying around. Excessive I know but I am anal when it comes to cars.

Do it myself list:
Replace all the hoses with silicon hoses.
Replace the AST with an aftermarket one.
Purchase and Install Apexi Power FC with datalogit, commander, and boost controller.
Replace intake with Apexi intake.
Custom make my down pipe(Reduce engine temp), cat, and exhaust. (With the intent to pass emissions in Texas)


If I have to replace the turbos, I was planning on getting the Efini turbos from Rotary Performance.

I am currently sitting at the 85 percent chance of buying the car.

^Look into the BNRs instead of the Effini ones. Better flow and lower cost I think?

And don't ignore what others are telling you. You will most likely spend $5K or so on an engine rebuild. Definately have a compression check done on the engine before buying it. Take it to Rotary Performance and have them do it and check over the car for you. It's best to know now what you might be getting into.

don't let these guys scare you off. If you are on a budget you can get a nice rebuild for FAR less than $5,000. And as for the turbos, you can get a good used set for less than $500. Hell, just look at the classifieds section. $3000 for turbos is rediculous..............

Seriously, you can get a nice rebuild for $1000(pending all you internals being good) and a good set of turbo's for $500.

Well those turbos are at a quick glance. I want the car on the reliable side and a set of turbos that will last for long period of time. Keeping the twin turbo setup though. I may want to turn up the boost later on.

Well the car isn't quite in Dallas, kind of in the middle of nowhere and is not near any tuning shops. So I was planning to bring it to a Mazda Dealership to do a compression test.
How much does it cost to get a compression test done for at a Mazda Dealership?

^Really? Don't know of anyone reputable that does a rebuild for that little. Check all of the better shops. Here is a link to Rotary Performance:

http://www.rx7.com/engine.html

$2,400 for a basic non-ported rebuild. Yes, you could do that but if you want to make any power, you'll need the ported rebuild and that's $3,400 for starters. How about new rotor housings? They'll set you back another $1,500 or so, bringing the total to the $5K we've discussed. Had my engine rebuilt by Pettit and paid $4,800 for it.

Regarding turbos, $500 for new turbos? Maybe a set of used ones but then you take your chances on how good they are. The better option is to go BNRs for $2,350:

http://www.rx7store.net/category_s/130.htm

A nice upgrade to the stocker ones and the flow much better.

It's not cheap owning a rotary car, but it is worth it to me.

No one is trying to scare him off. Just trying to make sure he is not paying premium price for a car that may need a lot of work and maintenance soon. What is the asking price?

I would think $100 - $150 bucks. Mazda dealers do tend to rip you off though. A compression test is easy to do. They basically have to remove one spark plug (leading) per rotor and turn the engine over several times with a pressure gauge attached. Should read the same across both rotors and above 80 I would think. I have a ported three rotor so maybe the two rotor is different in the reading? With a stock engine, I would think 80 would be the minimum but how about an expert weighing in?

Asking price is $11,000.
94 Rx-7
88,000 miles

No its not, but that does not mean you need to point the new recruit toward the most expensive options.

I typed, "used turbos for $500". I'm well aware you can't get them NEW for that much. For people to tell him to "get ready to drop $3,000 on new turbos" is just stupid, when there are literally dozens of good USED sets for 1/6th of that price.

I can think of 3 reputable builders that range from $900 TO $1500 for a good rebuild. If you wanna put the "Pineapple" name behind the rebuild, then yeah, triple the price. If the OP wants the names of these builders, he is more than welcome to PM me.

You can make plenty of power without a ported motor, depending on your definition of "plenty".

80 is pretty low on a stock motor

do it, you only live once

Get a compression check. Around 85 if i remember is decent but anything in the low 80s. Make sure its tested with a rotary engine compression tester too.

You dont really need a datalogit or a boost controller yet unless you plan to tune your car yourself. The base map that comes with the power FC should be fine for what your thinking of running. Also the power commander can do some basic functions like fan control and boost control even though its not as good as a boost controller.

Wraping the downpipe helps a little with cooling the air. Also if your going to get new twin turbos id think about porting the wastegate just in case you want to add a little power later on.

The oil leak is a common thing with FDs it comes from the oil pan gasket. You would have to lift the engine to reseal it. If your close to needing a rebuild id just wait and just monitor the oil since the FD likes to eat oil + the oil leak.

what?? 85 psi is decent but 88+psi is bad. Is this a typo.........??

I do plan on tuning it myself later down the road. I was gonna keep the car reliable and simple with few mods. Reliable and quick was what I was aiming.

If the motor were to be rebuild I was looking at the Street Port option from Rotary Peformance.

So compression levels should be around 85 and up right? Anything lower means I shouldn't buy it right?

yeah it was i meant to edit the post but i ran out of time. stupid customers buging me while i post on forums.

well, I 'd still buy it if the compression is low, but not for 11k

if it is the original motor with 88k on it, it probably is getting close to needing a rebuild. But you never know. It could be one of those anomaly engines that has an extended life.

But yes, 85 and up you are looking decent. Anything above 95 would be phenonmenal.

T

Thanks everyone. I'll take a look at the car this weekend and get the compression tests and what not. If everything turns out good I will be driving home in it as well. I will give everyone heads up on how it goes.

If you really want the car then results of things like compression tests should be used as negotiating points, not buy/no buy points. Face it, the car is going to cost you more money sooner or later. Forewarned is forearmed...

If you have a budget for the mods you already listed, plus you're looking at a rebuild at Rotary Performance, then I would NOT buy any used turbos.

If the turbos you have are in decent shape, keep using those after your rebuild, and then when the time comes and you have more $$$, get the BNR's ... everyone here on the forums who got them, including me, has not and will not be disappointed. They will probably outlast the life of your next rebuild, unless you plan to boost 20+ psi on them all day long.

How good is the body, paint and interior? Interior stuff is mucho $$$ and if you like your FD and if you plan to keep the car for awhile then that is something that you will want to be nice as well..

As surfmon said, you only live once! But I would go with a street ported motor and bnr turbos if you can afford the $20k price tag.

And I think $9-10k would be a fair price for the FD unless there are other flaws.

PICS ???

A compression test will not tell you anything about the coolant seals. As others have said, add $5k to the purchase price for a rebuild - which will typically bring you into the territory of a much nicer FD. (There are some very nice FDs around for $15k now.) Another $1-$2k for pillowballs and other standard wear items would not be out of the question.

And ignore the $1k rebuild estimate - this is absolutely a best case number and assumes that you pull and reinstall and rebuild yourself and that rotors and housings are within spec, which is unlikely for an 88k mile car, and that nothing else needs to be replaced when you rebuild, which is even more unlikely.

The body is in good condition with some minor paint chips. Interior is in good condition as well. I am currently at work so I can't post up the pics. It is black on black straight from the factory as an option. From what the owner says, it is in prestine condition. Clear title, no accidents, interior is in excellent condition. No tears in the seats, no cracks in the dash. No broken panels either.

I do plan on replacing the interior in the future as well. Just the seats, different head unit, and that is about it as far as it goes to interior.

Money isn't an issue for me, but I would like to save as much as I can.

Yea I do plan on doing a street port if it were to be rebuilt. After the turbos go out, then I will search around for a good replacement. I have heard a lot of people on here talking about bnr turbos.

So $10 would be a fair price? I've been looking around and lots of people are selling stock 7's for $13+.

still standing by my original statement that 5k is INSANE for a rebuild unless you are building a monster

but then again I did buy my FD for $4500, so my opinion might be skewed

good luck whatever you do

betcha most of those had a fresh motor though

I want to buy an RX-7 but I don't want to get ripped off and I want a really good deal as well.

you definitely want the compression to be consistant, idk what the spec is probably a certain percent of difference is what your looking for maybe 10%??? umm you can do compression tests yourself, get a test from autozone if you like.........and how long has the car been for sale???

The car has been for sale for about 1 1/2 weeks.

I presume this is the car:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...e=&cardist=211

Unlike most Autotrader FD listings, the price is not way out of line. However, a $15k FD (e.g., https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-rx-7-1993-2002-vehicles-107/fs-1993-bb-r1-w-62k-miles-799155/) would make far more sense.

Too many prospective FD buyers concentrate on minimizing the initial purchase price.

I prefer to have a blank canvas for all my vehicles.

^If it is the Autotrader one, that looks pretty nice and clean. Also like the black on black interior.

Get a compression test done on it and if that checks out, I say go for it. Just remember the costs of ownership can be high. Not meant to scare you off as these cars are great, but we've all dumped tons of money into the cars and you will too.

FYI - the stock Bose system sucks and needs to be removed.

Yup that is the one and I don't mind putting in more money into after I buy it. I've been doing that for my past cars.

i say it looks clean to me, low ball him with whatever you want, worst thing he will say is no and go from there, you sound level headed to me and prepared to get one, do it do it!!!!!! just dont pay any more than you budget for.......I will admit that is very cheap, I paid less for mine and I got a killer deal(red on blk touring model, with old school yokohama wheels-intake, catback, and springs and shocks for $8k) difference is mine had 138k mileage but off a freshly rebuilt motor......................you wont regret it..........and most of all enjoy it!!!!

:lol: I just saw that post, haha. I always get pissy when people at work interrupt me posting or reading :squintfin

That FD is :yum: ... You should buy it before someone else on here does and then you should drive the piss out of it until you break the motor and then get that street port with the :goodrebuild: you want. And some new rims, I hate the look of the stock shiny wheels on FD's.

Any compression tester will do, just remove the schrader valve and have the proper adapter to fit the plug bosses. Pulses should be uniform. 80-100 psi is normal with no less than 20psi differential between chambers.

Follow instructions on page C9 of your shop manual.



Later

Awesome. Thanks everyone for all the advice. I'll be making a visit to him this weekend if it isn't picked up yet.

Remember to have the throttle butterfly wide open during the compression test.

Memorize Ray Crowe's number/email - you will need it. :icon_tup:

and disconnect power to the coil(s)...:rolleyes:

I disagree about 95 being so great. If I wanted to stay rotary for a long time, I would take 95 as being just good. I would say 105 is very good. For 88k though I guess 95 isnt bad. Compression in the 80s is WAAAY to low.

Also, the difference per reading should be low. According to

http://robrobinette.com/compression.htm

I believe 1kg-f/cm2 is around 14psi. I think thats kinda high though. I thought I read 5 psi variance was ok but I forget where.

I have seen 2 rotaries tested. The variance on a 60k renesis was around 1psi. Mine was 37k with a variance of 2psi (for all faces)

1 kilogram-force/cm2 = 14.2 psi

however, pressure in metric notation is usually stated in Pascals (or kilo-Pascals, kPa) 100 kPa is supposed to represent one Standard Atmospheric pressure, or about 14.5 psi

14.5 psi = 100 kPa
1 kPa = 1 kN/m2 = 0.145 psi

On piston engines (can I say that here?) a variance of less than 10% between cylinders is considered acceptable. I don't know if that is also applicable to rotaries though.

hahaha excellent

Look at this site to...
http://www.fd3s.net/compression_test.html

Unless I am misunderstanding, the limit there is 21psi.

Here it states the manual says the max limit is 20psi.
http://advantia.ca/blog/1994-mazda-rx7-my-new-ride

Yikes that seems like ALOT. I would agree more to the 10% figure you gave.


BTW, I found a cool rx7 compression test video...
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/rx...est/3159476660

We need more like em.

There are $2600.00 prebuilt shorblocks out there that are streetported that will make plenty of power, more than the BNRs can throw at them ;)

Also for $800.00 more he can have new rotor housings:) Another 200.00 will get him ALS seals. There are plenty of reputiable shops that offer quality below $5k.

If he sent me his block(assuming all parts are reusable) I could build him a new housing rebuild with ALS seals for around $2400.00. For less than $5k I could build him an entirely new engine.

I do have to agree with you though on the BNR suggestions, out our Speed For Sale event a couple weeks ago watched a guy trap 122-124mph consistantly on about 16-17lbs. Great turbos for a great price. A no brainer when it comes to choosing between the BNRs and the efini twins.