Question: Brake bleeding w/upgrades
 

I am going to be changing my brake pads soon. I'm going to be going with EBC Greens

I am also going to be doing:
Goodridge SS Brakelines
Speedbleeders
Repaint calipers
Clean and repaint shims

I have never done a brakepad change or brake work myself so I just want to know if I am correct with how I am going to do this whole process.

1) Remove fluid from lines
2) Instal brake lines
3) Remove calipers
4) Remove brake pads
5) Paint calipers
6) Paint shims
7) Instal speed bleeder
8) Instal brake pads
9) Connect brake lines
10) Bleed brakes


First, for the fluid removal process do I just connect the power bleeder to the fluid reservoir and pump all the fluid out, just as if I am going to bleed the brakes?

I have to remove the fluid first in order to remove the calipers from the car and get the complete paintjob that I am going for.

Now, for the bleeding process I'm going to get the power bleeder from motiveproducts.com. I'm also going to be installing the speedbleeders so this will help. But I am getting kind of confused to how this will work.

Do the speedbleeders just help make sure that no air gets returned into the system?

So with the bleeding process I am going to:

1) Connect the power bleeder to the reservoir
2) Put fluid in power bleeder
3) Starting at RR, place rubber tube over speedbleeder and into a container
4) Pressurize system with power bleeder
5) Continue process for LR, FR, LR

Is this all correct?

If so, I still do not understand what makes the speedbleeders so significant. I mean I know that it makes it an easier job to do because you don't have to worry about air getting sucked back in. I guess what I'm asking is, what is the difference between the regular brake bleeding process and the brake bleeding process with the speedbleeders?

I would not use the powerbleeder to drain the system. You will empty the ABS system and bleeding that could be damn near impossible. I just unbolt the brake line and carefully let the hard pipe hang with a pan below.

If you have a powerbleeder you can skip the speed bleeders. Speed bleeders are for bleeding using just the brake pedal to pressurize the system. Like you said, they prevent air from getting into the system. Without sb's or a powerbleeder it takes one person to push the brake pedal and one person to open and close the bleeder at the brake. Because the speed bleeder is a check valve, you only need the person pushing the pedal.

ok so I should just get the speedbleeders and just go with the traditional way of bleeding?

I think what i might do is, not drain the system while I am painting the calipers and all that. I will just clamp the stock brake line until I get done with the painting. Then when that's done, then drain the fluid, instal new brake lines, and finally bleed the system.

Will that be a proper method?

Well speedbleeders only work on that one car. The powerbleeder can be used on many cars. But the speedbleeders are cleaner and easier to do at the track. With the powerbleeder you have a lot of brake fluid in your engine bay and as careful as I try to be I always manage to spill a little more using the powerbleeder (I like keep a garden hose on hand to rinse off the area once I'm done with the brake job).

That should work. Just keep the paint off of the fittings and off of the rubber dust seals at the piston. You might be able to use a golf tee or something to stop/slow the draining of fluid from the brake line.

Personally, I'd rebuild the caliper (draining it in the process) and paint it when it's apart. Or buy a used set of calipers, paint and rebuild them and swap them (spares are very handy for the track guys). But that's more work and parts and you may not be interested in it.

Dave

Ditto on not draining the brake system.

Refilling it would be quite frustrating - you would see lots of 'ABS Light' action.

Even if you do have the power bleeder, speed bleeders are a good idea.

Brake work is much simpler with the speed bleeders.

ok, can you explain to me why it makes it easier? I'm just not getting the concept

I would go with speedbleeders personally, they're great. I agree, don't drain the system, just replace the parts and bleed normally until the air is out of the system.

You open the speedbleeder and pump the brake pedal. Keep an eye on the reservoir level and keep going until you're done.

The powerbleeder you have to fill, connect, tighten, check the seal, pump up, then go to the brake and open the bleeder. Then when you're done you have a container half full of brake fluid and when you go to take it off you can't let any of it get in the engine bay.

Dave

I bleed my brakes a dozen times a year (before each track event), and with the right adapter which perfectly fits our reservoir, the powerbleeder is incredibly easy to use. You do end up with some fluid left in the bleeder tank at the end, but as long as you're not starting with way too much fluid, it won't be much. I usually pour in a 500ml bottle and end up with hardly anything left. It's really easy when it becomes routine, if you bleed brakes enough - that's the key. I posted the adapter part number at some point, it threads right on the reservoir like a cap, no universal adapter or chain to mess with and it seals perfectly.

There is no reason to have a combination of speedbleeders and a powerbleeder. Maybe if you wanted to do pressure bleeding normally, and have the ability to quickly bleed at the track or something. Then again you really shouldn't need to bleed at the track anyways. I'd pick one or the other, not both.

My last bleed I had done by a trusted shop while I watched. They essentially had a large version of the power bleeder and...I don't know, they made it look incredibly easy.
Haven't tried it yet, but I also thought that the with the pressure bleeder like Motive it might be easier to get the clutch slave bled.

On our '94 RX-7, the slightly-flared end of the metal brake line can easily be capped with a rubber blind cap of the sort used in vacuum systems. You don't lose much brake fluid that way, which makes later bleeding easier and quicker. The caps I use are 5 mm I.D. and 9 mm O.D.

Ive did the same as you about a year ago, i just unbolted and just drained, i stripped the whole subfame down and painted everything looks great upgraded alot of things. i also fitted the speedbleeder on mine they do the job perfect clean and easy one man job, new blue stuff pads and rotor break discs

http://www.rotordiscs.com/images/rotor_disc_big.gif

Hammerited sliver subframe,blue launch bars & toe links, polished wishbones F & R, Dragon solid diff bushes, Dragon diff & gearbox brace, upgrade PPF and so much more OVERKILL but loving it :)

Feel free to send me an e-mail at jasonetc@yahoo.com. I just got finished replacing rotors, liness, pads and fluid this week - everything is fresh in my memory.

good luck

I love my Motive power bleeder. Just ordered the cap for the FD and its a breeze. Just gotta screw the cap into the brake resivour, hook up the line from the pump, pressurize the pump and then go wheel to wheel opening the bleeder on each caliper occasionaly having to throw a few more pumps on the power bleeder then your done. Very simple.

+1 for the vacuum caps on the hard lines to keep too much from spilling, ive been doin that for years and it works great.

How much pressure to you use on the Motive system? Is there a gauge or is it "xx" pumps?

There is a gauge, and I pump it to about 15psi. I can fully flush the whole car and it drops maybe a couple psi, so I never really need to pump it back up.

When I want to fully flush the system, I first hook the bleeder up empty and pump it up. Then I open the front-left bleed screw and drain as much fluid as I can without drawing air into the system, carefully watching the FRONT of the reservoir (remember there are separate chambers in there). Then close the bleed screw, vent the pressure from the bleeder and disconnect it from the reservoir, and fill the reservoir with fresh fluid. Then reconnect the bleeder and fill with fluid, pump it up, and go through the usual flush/bleed procedure. This heavily dilutes any old fluid left in the reservoir.

This is a really good idea save you dont accidentally "burp" the system. Great way to make sure you get as much of the old fluid out while not wasting too much new product. Thanks for the idea!

FWIW, I use ATE "blue" and ATE Type 200 "gold" brake fluids.

Not only is it a great brake fluid, but they are identical except for the dye.

Hence I alternate colors when flushing, and I know when the "new" fluid has displaced all the "old" fluid.

I also use a brake bleeder catch bottle when flushing from the calipers.

:-) neil

You could just get a helper, youd save some cash.

I do it a little differently, I use an old "turkey baster" to suck out as much old fluid from the reservoir as possible, then add fresh fluid. By doing it this way I don't risk pumping any air into the lines.

yes, but you do risk dripping the extremely corrosive fluid on your fender etc...

Like the idea about the dif color brake fluids though. Pretty smart stuff.

The alternating colors are definitely nice. I use Motul 600, and the stuff darkens noticeably in the presence of air/moisture between events, even in just a week. I put a florescent light behind the tubing when flushing, and the color changes from a bronzish color to greenish - that's my indicator of fresh fluid. ;)