Pro's and Con's about Turbo Simplification?
 

http://www.rx7turboturbo.com/robrobi...lification.htm

Anyone?

^

Pro's
1. Less vac.hose
2. Easier to diagnose
3. Eliminate emmission stuff
4. You will learn more about your turbo system
5. Changing all of the vac.hose, if you have boost problem.


Con's
1. Will give you headache if you dont know what your doing ;)
2. No additional performance gained
3. You will spend more if you broke some stuff along the way... hehe

cant think of anything else at the moment

Pro's
Less heat
Less backpressure
A more predictable linear power band.
Better midrange and top end

Con's
No turbo spool noises when accelerating slowly
ummm thats pretty much it.



This has been discussed plenty of times in the past.

Thanks for the input, any other people want to add their take on it? Im chaning my vacuum hoses now anyways so I thought Id take care of this as well. I plan to remove all emission's junk and anything else that is useless. Thanks

my turbos are simplified and non-seq... i want to change them back to sequential though...

Im talking about simplified the seq system as in the diagram with the link.

CON: If it ain't already broken don't fix it!!!!! Only go forward if you have a problem with your turbo system. If it is working fine, you should probably leave it alone.

Yeah, what he said! This IS rocket science....;)

Well Im doing the vac hose job as we speak so rather than make another rat's nest, I thought since I have everything off (manifold, elbow) I may as well do alot of other mods and this was just a thought.

I was going to say the same thing..
If your car runs fine.. don't touch it.. especially seq set up.. I fuxk with it when I first got it and now i have it fixed.. wait.. no.. its still messed up.. If I could start over.. i would wait until i have problem with vac lines.. before changing them all..

I have simplified set up.. You do know that you need block off plates to go simplified.. Otherwise, its not really true simplified seq. set up..

Also that mean, no air pump, and which means you should go head and go MP.. which leads to PFC, boost controller, etc..

Sorry.. I see that you have remapped ECU.. but becareful.. when you go MP.. boost spikes are common.. It happened to me.. 17lbs.. but I'm running rich..

I had a horrible idle and 10inhg of vacuum meaning there was something wrong. The manifold and everything is off and Im about to get the new silicone hoses in but I'd rather go simplified if it has no draw backs. I already took out the airpump couldnt stand it anways made the engine bay look dirtier than it already was.

:werd:

To me, If all the lines looked o.k.. then it might be ignition related.. But that's my guess..

Try the simplification and see if your idle is o.k... Make sure your map sensor is hooked up... if not, it will idle like shit..

I can't think of anything else that would make the car idle bad.. check the ignition wires and all the coil pack connectors..

Also, if you go simple and do all the stuff.. Get a boost controller.. I'm not sure what aftermarket remap ECU you have.. but some you don't want to spike pass 14lbs.

BTW I forgot to mention that my motor is ported so thats one of the reasons for a rough idle. Yet even with a ported motor I heard I should be getting at LEAST 15inhg of vacuum.

BTW on a Side Note
What would you think of the Turbo Simplification Combined with Damian's Boost Control ?? (LINK:https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...astegate+pills).

Anyone?

^

If you are removing all emissions components, there is no downside to the simplification.

As for the vacuum, it depends on the size of the porting. A local friend has a Pineapple rebuild with a streetport and his vacuum is just a hair over 10 inHg.

Alright I could care less about emissions. I think I have a street port but I was getting between 9-10. Which I still think is a little bit on the low side.

Also can anyone answer the questions of combining both turbo simplification with Damians Boost Control Method?

Nothing will change invloving the boost controllers. Those lines stay the same in the simplification.

So in other words you CAN combine them and it would be good right?

Far as the boost controller set up.. I have simplified set up with AVC-R.. AVC-r acturally controls the boost in the same manner as described in Damians way..

So, I wouldn't see why it would be a problem.. I have my PFC set at .85 but when i went full exhaust.. I still spiked.. but not as bad.. with out AVC-R.. i spiked hard..

Good luck..

yup.

It's not a fix, it's a modification. Albeit a ghetto one. The simplification removes emissions control systems and the double throttle. By removing/unplugging the airpump, you will gain a marginal amount of power below 3250rpm. This also makes way for other mods like gutting the cat or installing a midpipe. You'll also save cash on vacuum tubing. One also might argue that it increases reliability, because with the airpump disabled, you won't have to worry about it siezing and braking the belt the drives your water pump and alternator.

That being said, I wish I hadn't done the simplification. Now I need to keep the car registered in a state that does do emissions testing. It does also make the car even worse for the environment than it already is.

Well Florida I doubt will EVER do emissions again and even if they did. ( doubt it again) I'll just slap on the stock cat and a whole bunch of other sh*t just for the test. So the Simplification + Damians Boost Control is actually a good idea? Alrighty then that settles it Im going for it =P wish me luck when the hoses come in.

God it's nice being military...my car will forever and always be registered in good ol' FL!

I did the simplification on my car and also on my buddy Jeffs, it lowers the level of complexity from Doctorate Rocket Science to BA College Graduate level, something I can understand. Still not elementary, but better.

And WTF is this about no turob spool noises?? I don't know about that.

Get the blockoff plates and trash all that EPA Carter-ization...I didnt say that.

Jon

Alright if the general says to do it then I will =P

Thats a bunhc of stuff to be slapping back on though.

Whaaat?? :confused:
are you talking about non-seq? hehe

If anything I would only do the cats. My friend has to put his entire exhaust back together on his WRX when he has to take it to the dealer =P so a cat and a muffler for me I dont mine =P.

That also means I have to buy the block off plates.

If they actually "test" emissions, just putting the cat pack on without the rest won't make you pass. If all they do is a visual test to see if the cat is on the car, then that would work.

Either way they got rid of it 5 years ago and have never talked about bringing it back. The only thing their really strict about here are the rice mufflers, 98789459 subwoofers in the truck blasting, and rice races. (which is why we get problems sometime when we want to meet).


BTW I wouldnt even know of any other car. My dad has two v-8s running only flowmasters and he has yet to get sh*t about it =P.

BTW Anyone got pics of their engine bay after this?? Id really appreciate it. Or any vacuum hose simplification.

alot of the hoses u get rid of are underneath the UIM, so you wont see much unless someone has a pic before and after with the UIM off.

Ya but if you do Rob's Simplification there must be a hell of a difference. Anyone? Or am I the first Guinea Pig to try this?

BTW Whats this about that he removed the fuel regulator? I obviously leave mine on then correct?

(I dont know if this has been said or not....i only read the first page)

PRO: better gas mileage! (whenever the car sees boost, you dump loads of gas. If you are non-sequential u dont get on boost as much during everyday driving.

CON: Your car will be alot louder.

Hes asking aobut the seq. simplification.

yeah. If your keeping the stock FPR then leave that whole system alone.

Alright how expensive is it to replace the stock fuel pressure regulator. I honestly dont want to put that rats nest back in the car. Just looking at the design of the simplification makes me want it more. BTW Where is the regulator?

If I remember right leaving the stock FPR only leaves in one solenoid and the lines for it, so its not like its a big mess. May want to double check with the diagram though.

It's on the firewall side of the secondary injector rail. If you want to eliminate another solenoid, you can bypass the FPR solenoid (the solenoid on the orange plug) and connect a vacuum line directly to the little diagonal nipple on the LIM. The FPR solenoid's only job is to run the car rich on a hot start to blow out any fuel vapor bubbles. A few people have bypassed the FPR solenoid and have not reported any problems. If you want, I can post a pic of the FPR and the diagonal nipple on the LIM.

[edit]I'd just stick with the stock FPR. I think it works just fine, especially on the stock ECU.[/edit]

What most people have missed in going non seq. you will have a slower spool up since the exhust is split between the two turbs. When you are seq. the full cfm goes thru the primary only up to 4k rpm. The cfm is also split on the top end becuse its pushing gasses thru the primary when it is actualy usless. The only gain you will get is in the mid range, both turbs working together and no drop in boost during transition. I wouldnt do it. Its a simplification that is all. If it was a better way Mazda would have made it like that to begin with. Besides if your going to have two turbos on a FD learn how they work and understand the parts that make it work, with that knowlage you will be able to trobleshoot your turbos just fine. It just takes a little time to learn it.

The reason that Mazda made it so freaking many its mainly cause of emmisions. PCV and other useless emmisions junk. I think simplifying it would make things easier to work with but I just dont want to lose any dependability. Also I heard the simplification gives you better response.

BTW This is the SEQ SIMPLIFICATION!!!
(NOT NON SEQ)
Alright I just got the hoses in and Im working on getting the rats nest out. Im currently also trying to looking for the fuel regulartor which I am supposed to leave in place. Alright any other suggestions before I move on?

sounds like a great idea if you are choosing to stay with a sequential setup. cleaning up all the extra emmisions crap under the hood is the right thing to do, saves the motor. get rid of all of it and go non-seq. the whole engine bay gets gutted out!

Well I want to stay seq because Ive heard its better for track but the other main reason and more important is I dont have the money :D . Emmsions is not a problem. Also Ive heard you get better throttle response. Either way I cant stand the mess under there and would like to have a cleaner engine bay.

Also when you order the block off plates from the rx7 store do they come with where they belong?

No, but you'll know where they go when you have them in hand.