Practicality/Legality of using Racing Harnesses as Full-Time Safety Restraints???
 

Hi,

I'm having a rollbar installed very soon on my car and just recently purchased racing harnesses for restraints. I'd like to know how "pracitical" it is to use racing harnesses as full-time safety restraints? I've had a couple friends that removed their seatbelt assemblies altogether in favor of wearing harnesses all the time. I'd like to know if anyone on the forum is doing this as well? Is it practical to wear them all the time? I drive my car VERY infrequently and put around 2xxx miles every year IF that. I'm not at all concerned with daily driveability, but I would like to mess around with my stereo and other things while I'm in my car.

Also, I was concerned with the legality of wearing racing harnesses on the street in place of seatbelts? Does anyone know if this is legal or not? I'm located in Illinois so if anyone knows anything definite about this state or where I'd be able to find this information PLEASE provide me with any and all information.

Finally, I was also looking to replace my steering wheel with one without an airbag. Is a racing harness a good enough measure to replace an airbag? I was told by a couple people that if you're running harnesses an air bag is not a necessity since it'll keep you strapped in much more securely than normal seatbelts would and if an airbag deployed the high probablity is that it won't even come in contact with your face.


To those more knowledgeable than myself PLEASE feel free to provide me with any and all answers to my questions if possible.

Thanks in advance,

Rizwan

I run a harness at all times and have no stock seatbelt. I don't have a cage yet so its not the smartest idea, but I can tell you that I have been pulled over several times since I've had them and the police never commented on it. It may be different in your area

Street Legal Harnesses
 

The legality of harnesses on the street has to do with the locking mechanism.

Take a look at Schroth Racing Harnesses.

If you browse around the site you will find the section that addresses this.

Schroth has street legal harnesses.

Regarding the airbag, from an insurance point of view, you need to inform your insurance that your car does NOT have an airbag anymore.

Otherwise, if you do get into a serious enough accident where an airbag is EXPECTED to deploy/be present, they may invalidate your entire claim, esp. on bodily injury, which IMHO ain't worth removing the airbag.

:-) neil

Thanks for the link! I didn't realize that the legal issues spawned from the locking mechanism used. I purchased Takata harnesses so would you happen to know if these locking mechanisms are street legal? On their website it says they're FIA approved, 8853/98, and also 8854/98 approved.

I'm honestly not too worried about cops, because if I do get pulled over I have tooooo many other things to worry about and I'm sure the cop will be preoccupied with those other infractions as well ;).

ask yourself this, if you had a crash what would you rather be wearing.

I have had a rollcage put into your Nissan family wagon, why? because I want my family safe and its not that much of a job to get done for peace of mind

I never heard of this being an issue before? I don't doubt it's true, but can anyone else verify if that's indeed what needs to be done?

My major issue is that I don't like any of the OEM steering wheels w/airbags and although I'm in the process of receiving one (99 Nardi Wheel) I still feel like I'm settling just to accomodate the airbag. Ideally, I would like to purchase this steering wheel:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...1127172451.jpg
( Ramy, If you read this thread, PLEASE switch my order from the wheel we discussed to this ;). I'll PM you too. Thanks bro! )

Can anyone provide me with some information on it? I don't even know the name of it :). What's the diameter of the wheel, how light is it, how much, model, etc.?

Thanks again,

Riz

i copied this from one of my older posts asking the same question... well somwhat...

as i said in one of the other threads... my father is a biomechanical engineer and basically what he does is test the saftey part of cars such as seat belts (harnesses too), the seats, airbags, and etc.

ive asked him many times and he says.... you should never use a racing harness if it is not connected to a proper roll bar or HARNESS bar... the harness has no use.

please read this so you wont kill yourself............... the correct way to install a harness and acually make it work is if the harness and the bar are at a 45 degree angle from your shoulder.... basically what this says is... the point where the harness attaches to the bar should be PARRALLEL to your shoulders.......... or else if u have a impact of 20mph+ your shoulders will be shoved into your rib cage and you will die..... and this has been proffesionally tested.


and the strut bar is WAY to week for a harness on top of that it is way to low to connect a harness.


and then theres the question abuot the helmet.... unless your planning on driving with a helmet ANYTIME you drive.... forget about a rollcage/bar.... and no the foam things you put on the rollcage are NOT going to do anything. you will crack your head open in a 10mph collision when your head hits the bar.

plus the airbags will most prob kill you scince u dont have that slack that the regular seatbelt will give you.... the airbag will hit you in the wrong place guarenteed and kill you.


harness's are cool though :]

I've never heard of anyone getting a ticket for harnesses. Paramedics on the other hand, don't like them. I know it's easy to release a cam-lock, but if you get in a wreck and they respond, they'll cut your harness instead of trying to figure out how to use the release. If you're not worried about that, just make sure that you bolt your harnesses in correctly so that your spine won't be compacted in the event of a crash.

I've been battling with the same question myself. I have an authentic Takata 4-point harness...

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that all harnesses are illegal for street use. But I had never heard of the Schroth Racing harnesses. I'm also not sure if it varies by state. Nevertheless, it'd still be cool for the track if you track your car.

What difference does it make if you tell the insurance company if you removed the airbag or not? They're going to screw you anyway! By telling them, they will have it on record and you will definately get the shaft...with no vaseline!! I don't think it's legal to remove the airbag. Legal to shut it off (passenger side).

This is some very good information. I already knew about the angle and fastening the harnesses to a certified rollbar/cage. I'll be mounting my harnesses to the aftermarket harness bar that comes with my rollbar purchase. It's in the same location as stock and so I shouldn't have any problems with the angle the harnesses are mounted.


My question regarding your post is most concerned with the comment about the airbag. Are you agreeing that it's not a good idea to have an airbag in a car with a racing harnesses installed? This is exactly what I'm trying to figure out. Please explain a lil' further if possible. Thanks!

I'm not sure if it's possible, but the insurance company might still offer some protection at a higher cost knowing the airbags are no longer installed on the car. But that's probably worth the price instead of having them find out the hard way and bailing out on you with your claim. Of course if it's illegal to remove airbags altogether, then that's another story.

Airbag's don't hit hard enough to kill you unless you're a 4 year old, so I wouldn't worry about it. I've actually had my head right next to an airbag, sideways as if listening to it, and it's gone off. Granted it doesn't feel good, but it didn't kill me either.

At the time the FD was being sold in the USA, airbags were not mandatory therefore is it legal to remove them. On any car made after airbags were mandatory, it is illegal to remove them (however, its also illegal to modify exhausts but that doesn't stop people ;) ).

Great news! Thanks for that bit of info Mahjik. Do you by any chance know if that negates the previous comment that we would have to tell the insurance companies regarding the airbags removal?

Adam C would be the best person to ask about that. But seeing as all you get with having the airbag on the car is a little extra break in insurance; the worst I could see is if they find out its gone, you'll end up having a rate increase.

As I mentioned to you earlier Riz, do not use Takata harnesses on the street, as they (much like most other racing harnesses) are illegal. They are not street legal for two reasons:

1) They are not lifetime belts and have an expiration date that you should find out about before you buy; some expire sooner than you think.

2) When properly tightened you WILL NOT be able to look over your shoulder to check your blind spot. This can get you into an accident. So it is highly recommended you only use them for sanctioned racing (drag/autox/road race).

I suspect that most of the ppl who claim to have used harnesses on the street had them loose enough for them to be wholly ineffective - in which case, it's as if you're driving around w/o a seatbelt. If you have an airbag, in THAT case, it can definitely kill or seriously injure you. And if you don't have an airbag, maybe you should drop by the local hospital to see what it looks like to crash without a seatbelt. It isn't pretty...

IMO, racing harnesses are just that: for racing (ie offroad use only). There is no real NEED to remove the stock seatbelt. Leave it on, use it for the street. When you're at a track event, use the harnesses. Problem solved ;)

~Ramy

PS: I'll try and keep an eye on the thread, but gimme a head's up if you find out which steering wheel that is. I believe it was posted in this thread somewhere (but I'm too lazy to look through all of it ATM lol). https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-general-discussion-322/post-pics-your-non-stock-steering-wheels-520375/

+1 if you dont know how find a shop that do

I didn't WANT the racing harness. Hell, I didn't even know my car had one till I picked it up. By that time, the stock seatbelt and bolts had been thrown away, racing harness was in...:( not my choice.

I don't think this is true, I do believe in 1994 is when they made them mandatory and that's why both driver and passenger airbags were installed.

Either way, your question to your answers about the airbags and the seatbelt as far as being legal is easy to solve. Do a google search on your local DMV, they post up rules on what you can remove.

In my opinion, if it means anything to you, if you have to go through the trouble of questioning it so much, leave it alone. Switch when you do track, if you plan to at all. If you are in to shows, switch before you show. Not worth it, even if you are not daily driving. An accident can happen at anytime...

Luigi

Excuses excuses lol. You can always sell the harnesses and buy stock seatbelts w/ the cash.. ;)

:p: you're only saying that cause you know exactly who I'd go to for the replacement seatbelt. *cough*fdnewbie.com*cough*

Nope, it was 1998 when they were mandatory by DOT. Here's a quote:

I didn't have time too look it up on the DOT site, but there are many references to it on the web including this article:

http://inventors.about.com/od/astart...a/air_bags.htm

Actually, there are a few old posts probably from me on this forum pointing to the DOT information about this subject from a few years ago.