OMG!!! I'm going crazy searching the smic vs. fmic...
 

I've been searching for at least 2 hours and i need to go to bed. :wallbash:

I've read all the benefits of the smic but still would rather get the intercooler out of the engine bay and go front mount. Now i WAS going to buy a Greddy 2row intercooler but now i'm not so sure. I've read many bad things though saying that people have cooling problems with it, and i'm going to be using the STOCK radiator. So i also read that the Apexi and the Blitz fmic's are better in that they flow more to the radiator. So is any of this true or am i making a big deal over nothing??? Help me make a decision before even hotter weather hits...

I also was planning on trying to build some type of box around my apexi intakes to get cooler air but after looking at the piping for the front mounts, it doesn't look like it's happening.

If your going to keep this a street car by all means get a front mount, but if you going to do any sort of tracking (road coarse, circle track etc.) You should definetly because you will overheat on the track.

^thats about the worst info/advice I've read on the subject.

I had a greddy stock mount with a koyo and would run 85-88 degrees C. I then got a greddy two row and it runs like 92-93 degrees C. Both readings from my pfc commander. It runs a little warmer but it is definently not close to overheating or anything. I know a guy that has a t-88 with a greddy 3 row and a stock radiator and he runs the same temps i do. I say get a front mount, i love the way our cars look with them.
-Austin

V-Mount is the way to go here.

If your primary concern is bling and/or drag racing, then get a front mount.

Otherwise, get the IC out of the way of the radiator. The FD's cooling system is dicey anyway, and if you offer the radiator nothing but sloppy seconds to air from your IC, I think you can easily develop problems around town, and I would almost guarantee problems if you plan to track the car on a road course. (and there is nothing more depressing than having to cut your track sessions short due to cooling issues....)

I highly recommend the ASP or Pettit SMICs as very effective and less disruptive to engine cooling efficiency. My 2c. Obviously the subject of much debate though... granted, they do look nice up front.

build a tray/enclosure that incloses the radiator in behind the intercooler (use aluminum) and seal everything up with alum foil tape and foam padding (weather stripping) to seal it...i did this and never had any issues..

Yeah, and have you ever road raced the car? Or ran the A/C through stop-and-go traffic in very hot weather?

An FMIC will not overheat in street driving if everything is working properly. However, in any kind of extended hard driving in warmer weather, they will overheat. Plain and simple.


What is the point of this thread anyway? You read all of the research and made your decision. Are you looking for validation or something?

So does anyone actually have experience or numbers(temp.) on the v mounts???

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/v-mount-track-report-245422/

Unless you are a hardcore track guy, the v-mount will be an expensive "look at this" mod.

Well i'm looking at it like this:

1. I want an large intercooler that will cool my charge better than stock.
2. I don't want to risk overheating my motor in the process.
3. I would also like to get cooler air for the intake to help get a cooler charge.
4. Though i don't have many mods yet, i would like to plan ahead and hopefully save money.
5. The large SMIC look pointless because the opening for the ducting is about a third the size of the intercooler.

So far, the only answer is a V-Mount Intercooler...

1. I want an large intercooler that will cool my charge better than stock.

A larger SMIC or FMIC will work just fine.

2. I don't want to risk overheating my motor in the process.

Then putting something in front of your radiator is not a good way to go.

3. I would also like to get cooler air for the intake to help get a cooler charge.

With using the stock twins, your best bet is an efficient IC. Once the air is super heated by the stock twins, the gains from cold air intakes become nominal.

4. Though i don't have many mods yet, i would like to plan ahead and hopefully save money.

Then first decide what you are going to do with your car. IMO, don't spend money on things you'll never be able to fully appreciate.

5. The large SMIC look pointless because the opening for the ducting is about a third the size of the intercooler.

You would be surprised at how well it works. It's not necessarily how much air, but also how well the air is flowing. Check this thread:

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/real-world-comparo-ait-water-temps-smic-vs-fmic-373078/

IMO, you should look into the ASP/Pettit SMIC's. They are about the best all around bang for the buck.

BTW, I have a friend who runs an Apexi FMIC on the track. He has his own ducting and still sees higher overall temps than another friend using an M2 (pretty much ASP) SMIC. On hot days, it's not uncommon from him to be at 240F in just a few laps. Last I talked to him, he was trying to trade his Apexi for an ASP.

Well then answer me this. I plan on going the EXACT same route as Goodfella. How would his set-up work if he had a v-mount? This should be the deciding factor on what i will get.

And for the record, i do plan on tracking my car once or twice a year. Especially if they get the go ahead with building a track near me...

No one can answer that question. There are no exact comparision test between V-Mounts and the ASP/M2 line of SMIC's. The real question is, would you notice the difference? IMO, probably not.

Once or twice a year is not really a hardcore track junkie. IMO, pick up a used ASP or PFC SMIC. You can get them for good prices and resell them for just about as much as you got it used. This way, *IF* you feel you need to spend the big bucks on something else; you won't lose hardly any (if any) money out of your pocket.

However, it's your money, do as you like.

Thanks for the help Mahjik. I think i will go with the medium or large ASP intercooler now. Hopefully this thread will help some other people decide what to get also.

Listen to Mahjik....

If a good stock mount intercooler can control intake temps and have the added benefit of not restricting cooling capacity of the radiator why is there a need to look any further?

Well i also was looking into heat soak and such...

You get a gold star.

In my estimation ignoring this is the most widespread screw up FD owners make. The myriad of people with open filter elements in the engine bay or no filter at all really need to do some serious reading. Probably the most fundamental misunderstanding people have is, "...it doesn't matter how hot the intake air is since it's all going to get cooled by the intercooler.":Kill2: :Kill2: :Kill2:


Anyway just wanted to make note of your #3.

I recommend a good oil cooler set-up if you want to run a SMIC. I have heat soak problems with one stock oil cooler...I figure if the oil does 1/3 of the cooling and your IC sits on top of the radiator, get as much cooling out of that 1/3 as possible!!

Improved oil cooling is a good idea no matter what kind of IC, vmount included.

I have the Pettit CAI and while the elements are in the engine bay and while this is very bad in traffic Cam said the air cools down quickly once the car is moving again as it picks air up from the slot between the radiator and the frame. The heat shield in a modest way seperates the hot air from across the radiator and supposedly allows air to flow from that slot over the air filters and over and down under the car by the turbo area. There's been several schools of thought on this and aside from finding a way to move the filters into the opening where the second R-1 oil cooler (or the transmission cooler on the auto's) I don't see ho you can totally avoid (without having a boxed system) putting the air filters into the engine bay. The M-2 aluminum and CF boxes get just as hot as the engine bay does so how do the boxes serve to bennifit. Seems like Adam C's Cheap ass intake system may be the best over all bang for the buck as the plastic doesn't seem to get as hot as the other boxes and picks the air up from the same place as the aftermarket ones. The I/C seems to be the same situation as I'm guessing you want it to cool as quickly as possible once your moving again. Has anyone used the Pettit cool charge II I/C with a stock air box ? ? ?

I wasn't thinking of the ones that use a shield when I mentioned that. I was thinking of the ones sitting open in the engine bay with no plan or prayer to get cold air.

Thought the box gets hot it keeps the hot engine air isolated from the intake filters and recieves cool air from under the car. The only heat that those filters see comes from what the box is radiating, which isn't very much at all. The box would have to be glowing red in order to adversely affect the intake temps. Which in fact it's just hot to the touch but not hot enough to burn.

Has anyone actually placed a temperature sensor in the box types to see how hot they are in traffic as opposed to how quickly they return to ambiant temperatures when moving. I'm wondering if that slot generates any pressure in a closed box as opposed to an open back shielded type like the Pettit version.