New OEM Front Bearings/Hubs missing inner seal???
 

This past weekend I had some suspension work planned, which included replacing the front Bearings/Hubs. These are brand new parts I ordered from Ray and when I opened them I noticed that there was no inner seal for the bearing; I could see directly into the inside of the bearing itself. Struck me as incredibly odd and made me less than enthusiastic to install them so I postponed the work. I wrote Ray for his take and he says Mazda changed the part number years ago and they all come this way now. Seems so bizarre to me. Even with the cap that goes on the hub, I don't feel like this is ok. The grease is just going to fly out of the bearing and pool in the space of the hub between the cap and the bearing, right? Has anybody else seen this and know whether it's ok/safe/normal? Also, assuming that the general consensus is to not run these, does anyone know where I can get some hubs that would be sure to include the inner seals?
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...091b9368dc.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...43cafd6e54.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...bfa10391ae.jpg

Ye olde tapered wheel bearings are unshielded, and they seem to have worked ok for a century or more without issues - wouldn't worry.

Are these still HUB066, hard to make out 6 or 0 in your pics. Out of interest, how much did they run? Heard someone recently paid around$AU700~$US500 for a pair ex Japan.

Occasionally you were expected to repack “ye olde tapered bearings” too or they would fail. But I don’t think Mazda expects us to do that. I don’t necessarily see grease immediately falling out of the bearing and I guess the dust cap will keep it dry too, but it does seem odd.

It's been a while but I think the nut and maybe washer will somewhat cover that area and help keep grease in. At the end of the day it's probably just a cheaper way to do it. Also have to wonder if it's a difference of one will last 100,000 miles and the other design will last 120,000 miles or what? Wonder if the original design was crazy overkill or something too.

Can you see if the nut and/or washer that bolts that to the hub covers some of the race area?

Dale

I can confirm they're HUB066(new pic below) - I bought these a couple years ago actually and they've been sitting on the shelf; but at the time I believe I paid $130 each

@DaleClark here is a photo with the Nut placed over the bearing, you can see it's effectively the same diameter and doesn't cover any of the open area where the grease is exposed. It's true the Dust cap covers the open end of the hub and will do it's job of keeping fluid and dust out of the hub interior but it's hard for me to imagine that the bearing grease won't make it's way outside of the bearing without a seal there.

Ray is being gracious enough to do some extra digging on the inside to see if he can gather any other reasoning around this as well as whether there are alternative options. Still though, I would appreciate anyone else's guidance or experience on this..


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...fe223b47e0.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...ae6310aeb5.jpg

Parts diagram only shows the washer, J001-26-114, going on the rear bearings, not the fronts. I always wondered why the fronts do not require one?

Interesting! Would also be interesting to install, run for a while, then pop the dust cap off and see if there's any sling out of grease.

Dale

What would happen if, after you tightened it down, you carefully ran a bead of gasket maker around that but keeping it out of the bearing ?

130 a bit more appealing. Checking the ones the other guy bought - it was actually $AU800, yikes! Anyhow, they're open too, so you haven't got something that slipped past QC.

The old tapered bearing and cups, you weren't repacking on a weekly basis. In many ways, they are superior to the modern way, especially when preloaded, undoubtedly more expensive for manufacture though.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...002cd8b2a3.jpg

The old bearing/hub in your photo seems to be evidence of my suspicions; there's grease riding up along and all around the surface of the inner hub wall.

Weird that his were so expensive. Mine are the same part, direct from Mazda. Hope the price hasn't simply jumped that much since I purchased mine.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...21a419fb4.jpeg

I ordered new front hub assemblies from my local dealership back in January, they look identical to what you have. They cost me around $180 each.

The old ones I removed did not have a seal either but the grease was still in place. Here's a pic of an old one before i replaced it

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...c252ec969b.png

You can probably add a thin washer to cover up the channel.

I replaced my factory originals a few years ago with new ones from Ray and noticed the same thing. The factory originals were definitely shielded like any other sealed bearing I've ever seen, so not sure why the replacements aren't.

@tikkitokki Thanks for sharing, that's an encouraging data point suggesting the grease may stay in place better than I would expect.

@ptrhahn I presume you haven't 'felt' any issues but have you by chance taken a look back inside the hub since installing the new ones to see what it looks like in there after some use?

I'm starting to wonder if I can transfer the shield from my old hubs over to the new ones. Seems like it would require pressing the bearing out of the hub, though.

I was really hoping I would get like 10+ people jumping in here to say "been running them like that for x years, no issues whatsoever." lol I'd be interested to know IRP's take as well, if they see this.

I have been running them for some time, including track use with no big issues. That said, I haven't taken a peak back in there to see what's up.

Reason for replacement at the time was to see if a tight new set cured some of the brake pad knockback you inherently get with this hub design, and at the time it did somewhat. I can't say if I've noticed it get worse again over time, other variables like pad thickness/age, tires, speed (which has increased) contribute.

The only way to really remove those bearings is die grinder/ cold chisel. You can remove shields, both rubber and metal, installing them may be quite the trick - never heard of it personally.

That used bearing has mostly been track use since import I believe and he cooked the brakes a couple years ago, so wouldn't be too surprised at grease spatter.

I'm not sure if any of the aftermarket hubs, like Timken or others, might be of the sealed design. If I had to do again, I'd look into that.

Timken are sealed

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...4328f96024.jpg

Thanks for sharing! That's good to know.

The three primary aftermarket options seem to be..
• Timken
• MOOG
• SKF

Thinking about trying one of these three instead but then of course in my searching I ran across a thread on RX8club with a variety of people telling war stories about how all three brands have quickly failed on track for them lol go figure - https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-racing-...ession-265330/
I know it isn't exactly apples to apples but its the same brands anyway

Also possible I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill with this hole thing.. idk. Will report back on whether Ray is able to learn anything interesting from Mazda.

Not just rx8s, should be a thread in suspension from a few years ago, where Timken branded hubs turned to crap almost immediately.

I did post an NSK part number in there somewhere, that was also used on FDs. If they're still produced, maybe there's a seal involved there for your peace of mind. I do remember finding a drawing at the time, as about the only evidence of their existence, with new Mazda hubs being NLA over here at least back then.

There was a period when manufacturers like Timken started getting stuff made at lower cost in China or other off-shores that a whole lot of products turned to crap. And others tried to cut costs to compete with the cheap Chinese stuff and their quality deteriorated.

I think that issue has diminished as most manufacturers learned that they got what they paid for.

hmm Timken is Us made, they must not have run out yet https://www.opticatonline.com/part/b...=usa&ctx_iam=1

That's sad that their quality has gotten so poor. They used to have a great reputation several decades ago.

@diablone Curious, do you remember where you bought yours? The product images on Summit show it open/unsealed on the inside of the hub and with an NSK bearing vs yours which is NTN - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tmk-512118

@j9fd3s That opticatonline site is amazing! I was interested in the FAG hubs but I see on opticatonline they are also open/unsealed inside of the hub - https://www.opticatonline.com/part/c...2477&ctx_iam=1

@cloud9 RockAuto in May 2021