Motul Recommends different oils for different market FDs
This sounds strange, I found that motul reccommends 4000 motion 10W30 (which is mineral) for FD's 13B engine, but then i found that for Mazda AUS (australian mazda), motul says: better 4000 motion 10W30 but best 8100 eco-nergy 5W30 which is synthetic. below is the link to the page:
http://www.motul-lubricantes.com/ what can you say about this? |
I'd say it doesn't matter. The viscosity ranges are pretty much the same and thats the important part. IMO, the differences of dino and synthetics are starting to blur as oils become more advanced.
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synthetic should not be run in a rotary.
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Oh my...
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Mahjik, the light weight oils wouldn't cause a problem? Please explain. I have no idea what the weight difference even means, but I'd like to know :)
Originally Posted by fastlinetuning
(Post 7521968)
synthetic should not be run in a rotary.
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Originally Posted by SLOASFK
(Post 7522058)
Mahjik, the light weight oils wouldn't cause a problem? Please explain. I have no idea what the weight difference even means, but I'd like to know :)
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Originally Posted by fastlinetuning
(Post 7521968)
synthetic should not be run in a rotary.
I recommend synthetic in all the motors I build (that are under warranty) after the 1500 mile breakin period. |
Originally Posted by beqa16v
(Post 7519516)
This sounds strange, I found that motul reccommends 4000 motion 10W30 (which is mineral) for FD's 13B engine, but then i found that for Mazda AUS (australian mazda), motul says: better 4000 motion 10W30 but best 8100 eco-nergy 5W30 which is synthetic. below is the link to the page:
http://www.motul-lubricantes.com/ what can you say about this?
Originally Posted by Mahjik
(Post 7522100)
I'll have to look it up, but IIRC they recommend an even lighter oil for the RX8. Granted, the RX8 isn't FI though.
This is not to say that the manufacturers don't know what they're doing, or that ultra-light weight viscosity oils are dangerous. It's just that the "recommended oil" in the owner's manual is based upon a bone-stock car being driven by Joe Average (who usually starts his car, almost immediately puts it into gear and takes off while the oil is still bone cold, and rarely runs his engine up to redline)...not a modified car pushing higher boost and higher overall temps.
Originally Posted by Mahjik
(Post 7522100)
...(the FD oil pump is mechanical so it can cause more resistance if the oil is not flowing well).
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Originally Posted by Kento
(Post 7523037)
This is not to say that the manufacturers don't know what they're doing, or that ultra-light weight viscosity oils are dangerous. It's just that the "recommended oil" in the owner's manual is based upon a bone-stock car being driven by Joe Average (who usually starts his car, almost immediately puts it into gear and takes off while the oil is still bone cold, and rarely runs his engine up to redline)...not a modified car pushing higher boost and higher overall temps.
However, simply pushing more boost shouldn't dictate oil weights. Most manufactures select oil weights base on bearing tolerances, and then adjust the cooling system to handle the performance of the car. It should be no different on this car. If you increase the level of performance to where the oil temps are rising, you need better oil cooling, not a heavier weight oil. |
shouldn't one increase to a higher weight when oil pressure begins to drop due to higher boost 25+ psi
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Originally Posted by Mahjik
(Post 7523085)
IMO, that's rubbish. Any "performance" car, they are going to recommend fluids which perform at a high level for the "factory" performance level of the car.
Originally Posted by Mahjik
(Post 7523085)
Many review put the cars through their paces at levels that the Average Joe will never see. The cars have to perform there just as they do for the Average Joe.
Originally Posted by Mahjik
(Post 7523085)
However, simply pushing more boost shouldn't dictate oil weights. Most manufactures select oil weights base on bearing tolerances, and then adjust the cooling system to handle the performance of the car. It should be no different on this car. If you increase the level of performance to where the oil temps are rising, you need better oil cooling, not a heavier weight oil.
Yes, very frequent oil changing can help ward off these problems. And while I use synthetic oil, I don't look at those who use quality dino oils as foolish, nor am I saying that 20W50 is the only way to go (I use a 15W-50). My only point in all this is that with older cars like the FD, viewing the manufacturer recommendations as gospel without researching alternatives is a bit short-sighted, especially when the car has been moderate to heavily modified, and/or its usage is far beyond its design intentions. And using the manufacturer oil recommendations of a much more recent car like the RX-8 as an implied justification for using ultra-light oils in the FD-- even if the engines are basically the same for the most part-- is a dangerous assumption. The camtrain galling in older V-8 engines resulting from usage of the newer API SL standard multi-viscosity oils with their lower levels of ZDDP additive is one example. |
Originally Posted by Kento
(Post 7524505)
Sure they do, but they don't drive the cars day in and day out for years. At the most, it's 8 months or so for a long-term test.
Originally Posted by Kento
(Post 7524505)
Everything you've stated here is true, but it's not possible to always control oil temps at every stage of their use in the engine. There is also the aspect of additional blow-by dilution, higher load shearing by the stationary gears, etc., with modified cars that will break down the viscosity quicker.
Yes, very frequent oil changing can help ward off these problems. And while I use synthetic oil, I don't look at those who use quality dino oils as foolish, nor am I saying that 20W50 is the only way to go (I use a 15W-50). My only point in all this is that with older cars like the FD, viewing the manufacturer recommendations as gospel without researching alternatives is a bit short-sighted, especially when the car has been moderate to heavily modified, and/or its usage is far beyond its design intentions. I do think the heavier oils should be used for those who road races their cars, however I'm not convinced that the heavier weight oils serve any real purpose on public streets other than to extend oil changes for the lazy people (i.e. help with dillution). ;) |
Originally Posted by Mahjik
(Post 7528283)
I've seen many documentaries of car manufacturers who use basically a dyno to run the cars for extended periods of time to simulate wear (and then do an inspection). Whether Mazda did this or not, I don't know but I would wager they did at least something similar rather than pulling straws to see which oil weight was going to be used.
I feel there's nothing wrong with using a slightly heavier viscosity oil as insurance against the aforementioned stresses that our oil must endure. It doesn't cost me any more, and I'm not worried about the flow rates of a 15W at cold temps, because those rates increase exponentially once above the 0-degree F threshold at which the winter viscosity rating is measured; and I'm not going to be pushing any boost at cold engine temps anyway, nor even driving my FD when it's 0 degrees F outside. Much of my car's use is driving through canyon roads near my home or track days (not "highway/drag pulls"), so I'd rather have that insurance against shearing and blow-by dilution, even if...hmm, I do change the oil at much more frequent intervals than the manufacturer's recommendation.;) Basically, this all got started because I do feel that going to lighter viscosity oil such as 5W or 0W in an engine not designed for it is a risky proposition. I've seen oil analysis results from 5W oils in motorcycles (which share the oil with the transmission gears, similar to how the rotary shares its oil with the stationary gears) show a considerable amount of viscosity breakdown after only 1000 miles of average usage. Did they spin a bearing or freeze solid? Nope, but I'd rather not take that chance. |
i think motul is the only thing french that i buy.lol
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i'll ask the question again as you guys went off topic. My car is 95 JDM model with 40K miles on it. i will not put more than 10-15 miles per day in avarige and sometimes autoX it on weekends. which of these 2 oils is better in my situation?
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Originally Posted by beqa16v
(Post 7539277)
i'll ask the question again as you guys went off topic. My car is 95 JDM model with 40K miles on it. i will not put more than 10-15 miles per day in avarige and sometimes autoX it on weekends. which of these 2 oils is better in my situation?
IMO, if you car has run regular mineral oil up to this point, don't switch to synthetic now. Run the mineral oil. |
well i dont know what oil was it runing.
Can mineral oil handle engine temperatures during autocrossing? |
Originally Posted by beqa16v
(Post 7539516)
well i dont know what oil was it runing.
Can mineral oil handle engine temperatures during autocrossing? |
what about 2-3 laps on a 4 kilometer track?
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Originally Posted by beqa16v
(Post 7539581)
what about 2-3 laps on a 4 kilometer track?
The problem is, its hard to make a car dual purpose. |
my car is 95 Type R japanese model. i dont know exactly if it has dual oil coolers or not.
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go to the front of the car and look into the openings at the 2 sides of the front bumper.. and see if there are 1 or 2 oil coolers
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FD3S2005
:) i know where they are and i would have known their number already if my car was not on a ship, floating somewhere in the ocean :) |
I found out that Type R's have dual oil coolers. that should be good :)
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