Mid Mount IC......Modified
 

Hi all,

I am uprating my FD (again) plan is, T78 and uprated fuel an IC. Wolf3d etc HKS ignition, porting etc is all done.

So you FD gurus....what do you think of this IC set up? I dont really wish to go for a V mount coz I am not sure if it will all fit back the way it should. regarding Powersteering pipes, ac etc etc....

This is what i had in mind.....

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...ntICsketch.jpg


So, in all i will be using four high flow fans. The IC fans are linked with the Wolf ECU, and will activate at a specific engine tempreture, rpm and vacum level.The IC will take up the whole area, from bumper to the bolt on beam(the one below th batt tray)I was going for a 4 row cooler with a cfm of about 1400. Also with this set up, the turbo tubing is not too long and thus shouldnt suffer from any pressure drop.

I know the area between the stock radiator and bumper crossmember is small, that is why i wanted to force the air in using the two fans on the IC. The plate above the fluidyne radiator is so that the hot water air is not blown onto the IC.

perhaps its far fetched, but what do you think. Comment would be really appreciated. anybody ever try it?

Thanks...

George

you may loose some of the air going to the radiator and that's pretty much the same concept of a upgraded SMIC. V-mount ain't that bad all you have to do it get creative with the P/S cooler. You can put a small oil cooler on the side intake to replace that one or just get you some pipping and start bending.

for the effort...I think you'll be more satisfied with making it v-mount. I have a SMIC single FD, and have ducting for fresh air to the air filter, IC sprayer, and WI...and I'm not satisfied. however, my IC core isn't as big as yours.

get a small pipe bender for the AC lines, and look into a different PS cooler (striaght line). That way you can use your stock radiator fans and no IC fans and use your wolf outputs for something else.

also, I don't know how acurrate your diagram flow chart is...air flows where is it least resistive. Don't want you over heating after all this fab.

hmmmm yes, i figured i could have some problems with the heating issue.But since i Have an R1, with both oil coolers on, and a knightsports typeI bumper, the PSpipes dont have much place where to go....

I opted for a big IC for that reason.so i have more surface area. The radiator will still be in the oem position, so regarding ram air, it will not be obstructedon the inlet side...the exhaust side would be a bit..... but dont you reckon the fans will force the air out?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...Photo02511.jpg

i had in mind of using the circular intakes between the fogs and oil coolers. I was gonna pass those aluminium airconditioning ducts to reach the radiator....make sense?

isn't that the same as my M2 Large?? I even have a 12inch PermaCool fan there that pulls 1650CFM

but does it work out for you? I have been thinking about this set up....
radiator over heating is my main concern, and the actual efficiency of the IC with this set up...

If can find some pic of the p/s coller relocation that comes with the Greddy FMIC, you can have an idea how to make it. I have the Greddy FMIC and the p/s Cooler is pretty much under the motor now, not quite like that but close enough.

I don't get how this is any different than any other stock mount radiator.

That will be a LOT of fabrication for not much payoff. Sealing everything off so that airflow will reach the IC will be a tough task, and because you're forcing the airflow to make some serious bends before it reaches the IC, you'll need to create a significant negative pressure behind the IC to generate enough airflow (and fans won't do it, because there's a big difference between pressure and cfm). That would require more extensive fabrication to create the proper ducting.

figures..... so, after all i have to V mount the radiator and IC. Now the kits for a V mount include stuff which are already installed. Any ideas for bracking oem type coolers?

on the other hand, what ducting are we looking at to force air into the IC compartment. Coz, to modify for V mount it might actually be worth ducting and channeling the air into the IC. perhaps adding the circular vents into the compartment will work better? I am trying to keep a simple yet effective set up.

When you say LOTs of fabrication, in what regards? I am figuring four components. The fan installation, the'blockoff' plate, the 4 inch ac aluminium duct into the compartment, and a custom intercooler. As you rightly said CFM is not pressure. can that presdure differential be created?

A FMIC is not an option. the front cover is too tight and the main intake is too small for any effective heat exchange. The V mount requires a massive re design(which if this proposed set wont work is the alternative). This set up, if ways are found for the differential press be created would in effect reduce a bunch of hassle.

Wont the side vents and the flow of air be sufficient you think?

thanks for all your imputs...you are shedding alot of light on the subject. perhaps a 'solution' can be acheived...

shoot any ideas you may have....

...or else charge cooling is the next alternative using glycogin....but it will all on the overall weight...

is it worth considering?

Well, the radiator is in the same location....just the IC is from headlight to headlight.....this is the idea, but with the plate to seperate the hot radiator air from the IC. Definately space will allow for a bigger IC then a FMIC...no?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...ity/P16-vi.jpg

move that battery to inside the car.

yep.......and the fans to be stuck to the IC.....

That's a mockup of what i have in mind.....

that pressure issue? any ideas?

if you are trying to do the same thing as the picture above well, that's a HKS V-mount

yes...the idea is to avoid the V Mount but use the same sized IC with the alternate ducting....

with a T78, frikkin' huge IC, and upgraded fuel system I guess this car wont be a daily driver, right? Space and heat exchange is such a concern why dont you just ditch the ps/ac? There are numerous threads about that already, but I ditched them in my daily driver FD and have never looked back

You basically need to seal off the area surrounding both the IC and the radiator, in order to force airflow through both. The problem I see with your setup is that you're forcing the airflow to make a lot of major direction changes, and the only way you'll get any flow through both IC and radiator is proper airflow management both in front of and behind the heat exchangers.

You're also going to have to fabricate a method of sealing off all the compartments, and that involves a lot of work.
Yes, a pressure differential can be created, but it's obviously not a simple deal. You need to manage airspeed properly as well as create the proper shaping for the ducting, and that will be very difficult to do with the limited space you have underneath the engine. And managing airflow speed on the bottom of the car is haphazard at best, due to the fact that the underside of the car is not perfectly flat. As I said, you're creating a lot of work for yourself that won't be much different than finding a way to make a V-mount function with your setup.

I really think that an v-mount would be better since there is not much air for your ic in your setup.

but with the v-nount i have a wide open underside..... anyone of you been to malta?? true we are in the EU but the roads are forsaken!!! they are on massive pothole and debris galore....looks more like australian outback driving here!!!actually there it might be better.I am afraid to damage the radiator being thus exposed.....

charge cooling then??? had i to use a charge cooler set up....with glycogin circulation for cooling? am not much of an authority on charge cooling though.....is it feasable?Its used alot on the strips as far as i know and its been said to be better then cooling...plus for a small front mount tipo ac radiator i have space....

Well, ac is a must here....i operate two maps....one for road use....and one for strip use. true it is not a daily driver but i do use it....and when i do ac is convenient. hehe my g/f would probably complain immediatly had i to have no ac.....ps....the roads here are winding....believe me, its not the states, so parking u need PS and driving its beneficial to have it....

that said, i thank all of you for your feedback. so.....changing a bit the thread issue, since it has been proven this proposed setup is lousy.....charge cooling? what do you people have to say on it?

Why does the underside have to be exposed with a V-mount? Just use the stock undertray, and modify it so that it will work. I don't see a reason why it shouldn't be used with the V-mount.

The problem with air/water ICs is that they have a limited heat exchange capacity (if you just do a few WOT bursts, then they can work), and you're adding more complexity and weight, with even more fabrication required. I think there was one member who stated he had an air/water IC setup on his SC'ed engine. Do a search and you'll find it.

[QUOTE=signofinfinity]but with the v-nount i have a wide open underside..... anyone of you been to malta?? true we are in the EU but the roads are forsaken!!! they are on massive pothole and debris galore....looks more like australian outback driving here!!!actually there it might be better.I am afraid to damage the radiator being thus exposed.....QUOTE]

you could use a grid to stop stones to enter the front, not so very nice but effective.

A2W IC info:

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/my-a2w-intercooler-done-256178/
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...postid=2497755

hmmmmm.......the grid is an option....

the pic mahjik is showing is sure different then the charge cooler i saw.... i must have a picture of some of the strip coolers i saw....

the ones i saw where tubular long and across about 5 inches in diameter...

...i once checked the expence involved...financially a a2w charge cooler costs like $900 usd.....so itspretty much the same price.... its not the price but efficiency, and effectiveness i am after......
add another $300 for the tubing....
ps...the 900 is without pumps and all...just the basic cooler and rad....

so, now its between V mount and CC.....

CC is sure easier to install, with minimal disruption of stuff in the engine bay.... just the oil catch,ASTand two stoke oil can to be moved...