Long Term E85 Effects
 

Well, I've read a lot of the threads on E85 that we have on the forum and while I see a lot of talk about the immediate effects, I don’t see anything mentioning the long-term. I was curious if any one on the forums that has completed the switch to E85 has seen any long-term changes. I know naturally alcohol is more corrosive on fuel lines and such, but I was wondering with the rotary being famous for its heat related issues if these two separate issues would combine to create a much larger problem in the long run. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

The fuel has not been widely available long enough for any long term testing. I share the same concerns that you do, with regards to the corrosive nature of the fuel. I think that we will start to see the fallout in the next year or two.

it has been wrecking havoc in boats, especially the fuel lines, scouring the fuel system clean, and fuel tank failures. I have been waiting as well, I think in another year or so we should know for sure.

For a race or track car I guess its a price you might pay, but for someone like me with a pleasure car I would rather be safe then sorry.

Haha alright well thank you guys, it seems like I jumped the gun with that question, hopefully we find out soon.

Crispeed has been running it for nearly 2 years in V8kila's 2 rotor making over 500whp @ 13psi with no ill effects.. The only added maintenance we have seen is keeping an eye on fuel filters and such because the glue sometimes comes apart.. If you swap to a steel element your good to go..

All of our evos have been using it as well for over a year.. No issues..

Mike

I've heard that the cars that have switched over have been running at cooler water and oil temp due to the nature of E85.

I've read a little about E85 effects and long term there really isn't many. As far as damage to engine parts everything is golden. Now fuel components is different. To stay "golden" you need new fuel lines and to keep an eye on components. GM cars that run Flex Fuel now can run regular octane and E85 in their systems but they have different fuel components. I can get that list up tonight if you'd like?

Guys, in Brazil they have been running ethanol in cars since the oil crisis in the 70s. Due to federal law 85% of cars in Brazil are ethanol or flex and 100% of cars built in Brazil must be flex. These cars are produced by Ford, VW, Toyota, GM, Fiat, and the French big two. I remember as a kid in the 80's and 90's there being logivity issues. However, these days the technology has advanced enough that they are as reliable as their gasoline counterparts.

To answer the OP's question, I do not think that there were ever rotaries built in Brazil, so we will have to wait and see. I would pre mix the hell out of it it I were running it.

I am far more concerned with the effects of E85 on a rotary then on a piston engine. As we all know they react to things differently. One car using it for two years does not constitute a wide enough sampling size or long enough for a "long term effect" analysis. we do not even know how often the car is driven or for how long, is it a track only car that sees less then 100 miles a year? We all know about the issues with pumps, filters and lines, I am far more concerned about the internals.

1. Is the same amount of oil injection needed?
2. If premixing what is the safe ratio?
3. Does 2 cycle mix properly or does it separate?
4. How does it effect oil control seals & o-rings?
5. How does it effect the bearings once the oil is diluted?
6. What type of wear on rotor housings?

The list of questions goes on & on. I am sure that some of these have been answered in other threads, but long term effects on a rotary engine have not been established.

I know this isn't the greatest data point but I had been running E85 for around 1k miles before doing a rebuild. I didn't notice any problems with any of the O-rings but I was rebuilding because of a coolant seal leakage (appeared to be a corrosion problem). Only item that I didn't like was the sticky film that was on everything. I do believe that in my time of running E85 my idle vacuum did increase and I felt the engine was fairly clean inside compared to other engine I have tore apart. As to corrosion issues with aluminum, I am running my own rails that are uncoated. E85 had been sitting in them for over a year now and have not noticed any corrosion. I am somewhat concerned about oil contamination and its effects but I usually change my oil every 1k or less anyway. Pre-Mix wise I'm using Benol as its compatible and mixes easily with alcohol at around 16 oz per fill up. If anyone is using a non alcohol compatible pre-mix I would say your dealing with the devil as a few don't mix at all.

I've been running it for almost two years and I daily drive the car. I pulled the engine recently because it swallowed a piece of gasket paper and it ruined something inside...other than what was damaged due to the issue I have never seen an engine look this good after this much running at very rich AFR's in the 500whp range. The housings and seals all looked pristine with no noticeable wear marks or anything. The O-rings also looked great and I could have reused them easily but I built a different engine.

Chris

Sorry I've been a little quiet just letting the discussion continue, I appreciate what everyone has contributed, but I have to agree with Banzai Racing on this one, there really are just too many questions left unanswered.
One thing I keep coming across is how clean E85 leaves motors, there seems to be a general consensus that the alcohol burns cleaner in every aspect. To Chris who's been running it for two years, that definitely is good news to hear that you've experienced no issues, and I appreciate the feedback, definitely a tick in the "Reasons to Switch" column for me. :) Although Im sure it'll still be a while before I make the final decision.

Banzai, from all my E85 research these are some answers for you.

2. If premixing what is the safe ratio?
1.25oz/gal

3. Does 2 cycle mix properly or does it separate?
Use 'Klotz Benol 2-Stroke Racing Castor', or 'VP Racing RC 3 Racing Castor'

I've heard that in high boost applications, E85 that gets to the oil during blow by breaks the oil down very quickly and can cause engine wear. Anyone else heard anything about this?

Thanks!

Yes, I've heard that and did research for it, I found a few articles for both sides. But one thing they constantly agreed on was the E85 blow-by does seem to have some adverse effects on some types of oil. The unburnt ethanol that gets through in the blow-by will be hygroscopic, so any vehicles running on E85 should try and find oils with the correct additives (or emulsifiers) to keep the ethanol and condensed water vapors in a relatively harmless state. Seems to me that as long as you're being careful with your oil the blow-by shouldn't be much of an issue. Hope that answers your question.

Wanting to trasission to e85 this winter. Any recent discoveries. Any updates since 2009.

nope, it never was determined to be an evil fuel that lies in await to eat up your motor at the first chance it gets. it is harsh on semi rusty gas tanks though and will strip them clean and push all the shit through your fuel system in a hurry, so be aware of that. plastic gas tanks compatible with alcohol would be more ideal for use with it.

There are a couple good threads in the alternative fuel section of the forum to help with some research as well.