Lets talk a little about ignition amps
 

What ignition amps are you guys running with good results? If you do or dont like one for some reason, lets hear about it.

Some that seem to be common are the

HKS twin
Crane Hi6
Jacobs Rotory Pro Pack
and I think there is a MSD that some people have but I dont know the model.

There might be some more I'm leaving out.

Anyway, I'm thinking about getting a new amp, I'm running high boost for the stock twins with 9's all the way around and stock ignition. I tend to run rich and due to that need a amp, well, unless I can get tuned pretty soon. I'd really like to just run a colder plug like a 10.5 and get tuned real good so its not such a strain on the igniton.

So what do you guys think about the various amps???

Thanks,
STEPHEN

I havent changed the ignition on my 7 yet, but I've used MSD ignition systems in the past and they are worth every penny. When it comes time to change the stocker out in the 7, MSD will be the first thing I look up.

It sounds like you are well versed on the "does it help" issues, so I don't think we need any discussion there.

I got the HKS TwinPower (after deciding to get some kind of amp) for these reasons:
- Super easy install, no wire cutting
- It works on both leading a trailing with one little box
- The little box is easy to mount, even if you have cruise control

If you get a TwinPower, squirt a little slilcone in the extra holes on the rubber grommit to keep water out.

-Max

I use the Ultra one here in Japan, its very popular....
WORKS good too... I heard HKS is just OK.. Ive never ran MSD.. happy huntin

Max, did it make much difference. I guess what I'm getting at is did it quite cutting out at high boost while running rich. I'm sure it prob did or else you prob wouldnt recomend it.

BTW - I really like you site.

Thanks guys,
STEPHEN

How much is the HKS? and where is the best place to order one?

www.rx7store.net among other places.

I've got the hks twin power also, and I have to say that it makes a HUGE difference. Easy to install and small.

I have the B & M New Volt. Good price, works great, no hesitation above 6K rpm. It hooks up on the supply side of the coils not the trigger side and provides 18-20 volts. It's not a multiple spark device though.

I don't know if it makes a difference or not. I was getting some break-up before I had the car dyno-tuned, and I slapped it on hoping to ward off ignition problems during dyno tuning. I didn't have any ignition problems, but my dyno curve does get a bit rough at high RPM. I don't know if it is ignition related or not.

What ended up biting me was my screwy attempt to use the PowerFC and stock solenoids to regulate boost (which was not a success -- it dropped off substantially at high RPM). Now I've got an AVC-R and it works great. I just need an engine rebuild (not a tuning related failure) and I'll be back to XS for more dyno tuning. And then back to the track!

Thanks for the comment on my site, I am glad you like it.

-Max

for what its worth xs recommended the bm to my friend. he later made 387rwhp on the stock twins, but i dont think they tested it without.

mike

I have decided to go with two HI6s and two LX91 coils (one for each leading plug!) for my road car.

Another forum member has done this set up and raves about it, on paper you should be able to weld steel with the amount of energy this set up will produce?

Price is not too bad, I will tell you how I go when I set it up on my car. On a side note I have used MSD 6As before and found them quite good, I just thought I would go a bit silly with my car. I do run ALOT of water/methanol injection and want to experiment more exotic fuel in the future, hence the extravagance of one CD unit & special coil per plug ! OVERKILL, most likley but, the price is not that much more compared to bying just one Hi6 here in Australia, so I thought F*&k it I will buy two with coils :D

Well, if you want an Ign. Amp, I have a new B&M New Volt for sale. Pete from XS uses it on is 500rwhp Single Turbo Drag car.

Any truth to upgrading your ignition and running lean at high rpms ?
All of us with upgraded ecu's cannot adjust the mixture and It's been said with the hotter spark
you may run a little lean at high boost levels.The hks seems to be a good choice for simplicity
reasons alone,no wire cutting,easy install and good quality.

anyone have some input on this. I've always heard no that it wont cause you to run lean, however, I think I read a post by Rice Racing that said it is possible.


I found the post, here is what Rice Racing had to say on one of my other posts about plugs........

v'good idea...I do not do anything without a wideband, all of my data is pretty much 100% (I calculate out all effects certain mods will have) but I still use the wideband to check my calculations.

On the CD ignition front, be carefull as when you go and up the power of this the fuel burns much better, I have herd of race guys here installing CD ignition and having engine failure due to lean running, so double check with wideband once you install this.

I am going to run two Crane Hi6 and two LX92 coils, ONE CD box and ONE coil for each leading plug on my Mazda, I just ordered the stuff from JEGS (pretty good price, compared to here in Aust) I think this will give the hottest most powerfull spark combination without spending a fortune while still being reliable for circuit/road racing. I will keep you informed once i set up the system.

***END OF RICE RACING COMMENT***

If you want a link to that thread its all about plugs.....
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=71118



Thanks for the help guys,
STEPHEN

no comments on the Jacobs unit?

If you are having some ignition cut-out at high RPM, then improving spark and completing combustion means less LOI (Loss On Ignition) and a wide band would indicate higher air to fuel ratio after the upgrade.

Depending on how rich/lean you are already tuned before the ignition upgrade, I can definitely see it being possible that a lean condition could occur.

That looks exactly like a setup in saw in a tuner maganize. Is that your car? Import Tuner I think it was.

It still amazes me about the ignition setups people run. I know people tend to have their favorites and some have different reasons for using them, drag racing, race engines etc. I have to strongly suggest the HKS twin ignition for the reasons Max already stated above. Our local RX-7 shop was wondering if the HKS unit would make a difference, I volunteered my car for the dyno runs since I had not changed anything from the last run. They hooked up the HKS unit, I drove over to the dyno, 8 rwhp and 19 ft/lbs for torque from the HKS unit. No tuning involved since at the time I have the M2 stage 3 ecu.

For those wondering about ignition, get the HKS BECAUSE :
1: it fires both leading and trailing
2: you don't need to buy 3 boxes of any other brand to do the same (1 for the 2 leading coils and 1 each for the trailing coils).
3: less clutter under the hood with 1 small box, not 3 large boxes or even 1 large box that just fires the leading coils.
4: direct plug in harness so no hack job on the stock ignition harness
5: the factory coils put out enough voltage compared to other stock coils on other cars.....almost 40,000, compared to 10 to 15000 on other factory cars so extra coil packs are a waste for most situations (again local rotary shop stated that about the coils).
6: cost of the HKs unit is $350 if you know someone who can get them for you.....cost of similar systems to fire all the coils is crane $170x3=$510, msd the same, Jacobs is even more at 300 a pop x 3. AND you still have to find room to mount all those large boxes.
Dyno plot available for those wanting proof of the 8 rwhp and 19 ft/lbs.

Tim Benton

gmonsen - Ok, so what you saying I should do is make a dyno pull to make sure I'm fairly rich across the board (which I think I am very rich) Then install the ingition box and dyno tune my car.

I was planning on dyno tuning first to see if it would help with the high rom breakup and if ti didnt throwing on a amp like the HKS. Your telling me that would be a bad idea cause when I get tuned the amp is going to lean me out some more.

hmmm, ok well it sounds like I know what I need to do.

Thanks for the comments!!!! I'll look into the MSD as well. Is there any MSD products that are easier, I didnt really want to hack harneses and have multiple boxes, ect.... I dont think I'll have quite the ignition need that you do eventhough the dual boxes looks bad ass in your hatch like that lol I'm basically just running all the bolt ons with upgraded fuel system and 15psi on the stock twins. I daily drive it to work.

Thanks man,
STEPHEN

Great timing for this thread as I am in the throws of tuning my freshly rebuilt single turbo motor. I am running rich, AFR is low to mid 10 under full load above 4k rpm and there is ignition breakup at times, you can feel it and the UEGO datalogging indicates a momentary super rich condition as the unburnt fuel hits the exhaust. The plugs are fouling as well.

I am concerned about leaning out the mixture to achieve higher AFRs since the ignition misfire can be misread as a rich mixture. I have decided to amp the ignition before tuning to mid/high 11 AFRs.

The comments about an amp leaning out the mixture confuse me. IF you tune to high 11 AFR without an amp and you suffer a bit of misfire your AFR will not indicate the actual mixture, your wideband will indicate a richer mixture than your combustion chamber is seeing. When you amp your ignition and reduce the number of misfires, your mixture doesn't change; only your measured AFRs change. Am I missing something? I would like to get some feedback before final tuning of my latest motor.

well the neat thing about the HKS unit is you can turn it off and go back to stock ignition control. Now that I have the PFC inplace and some baseline runs, I can just turn it off and see what RWHP I am making now. My somewhat educated guess is the HKS unit is all you need up to about 15 psi for ignition break up at the top end since like I said the coils are strong enough to zap the plugs with a strong enough jolt to light the mixture. I don't know about higher boost pressures, like some run with the single turbo, for the HKS unit and stock coils. Whats the output of the MSD coil packs people tend to use? If they don't have an output higher than 40000, then I'd say they are a waste since they aren't even putting out as much energy as the stock units.

Great topic though to see what people are using and what stage of mods they have.

Tim Benton

I need to do an ignition that will relocate the coils or use a better coil. My stock coils are FRIED. Too much heat on top of the motor.

Later, Jeff

any one have a more indepth on how all these install to a car running a power fc and stock coils with a single turbo... PM me.

I hate to bring this topic back up... and I would like to apologize..

Last night, I notice I have have ignition break ups.. and after changing out my plugs.. i still see ignition break ups.. slightly less.. but still present..

Anyhow, after doing a search I came across this thread.. So, HKS or MSD>..I'm probably never going to run pass 15 psi.. and also going to stick with stock twin in seq. set up for at least until Sept.. After that, I might go non-seq.

I would also like to non-clutter my enginw bag..

I know stephen uses MSD.. And most FD's in Columus OH uses HKS..

So, what would you recommend for my set up.. And what is high HP level to use MSD>. I'll probably never pass 360 380 HP..