intercoolers(i searched :()
 

ok so,
i am not sure what to do. should i get a smic or a fmic. i don't want to relocate the battery. but i am thinking a greddy 2 row fmic. its only 1000 bucks, much cheaper than most. or should i get a m2 smic? its 1500 but, i really don't know anything about which ic is good. i am sticking to stock twins. any help appreciated, or just gimmie suggestions on what to get. THANK YOU!!!

SMIC is best for stock twins. M2 med intercooler does not require battery relocation. I'd say that is your best bet.

Good question. I am planning on going TO4E or S when my stock twins die. (Actually looking forward to that...hmmm)

I am holding off on IC and a few other things untill then.

What are the pros/cons of SMIC vs FMIC?? Do you lose pressure/boost going FMIC?

the good old SMIC and FMIC controversy. use the search function guys, theres many a thread discussing this same issue.

IMHO, greddy 2 row is awesome for stock twins. it has little to no lag. you can retain your battery in the engine bay [kit has new mounts].

Re: intercoolers(i searched :()
 

Right now I've got the stock twins and running a Feed FMIC(appx. the same size as the GREDDY 3 row.) I see ABSOLUTELY NO PRESSURE DROP.

I Used to have a stock mount that was HUGE. I watched my air temps and after 3 runs, my air temps would be over 78 degrees Celsius! With my Front Mount, I'm running 40 degrees to 50 degrees celsius with CONSISTENT run after run after run.

No way would I go back to having a stock mount IC again.

i like fmic but you lose the a/c that sucks. i went with pettit's huge ass smic and move the bettery in the back bin behind me.that was easy to do took maybe 30 minutes. plus my intake charge temps stay pretty decent after 3 or 4 hard boost runs it does not go threw the roof.

If you are looking for a cheaper SMIC try a pfs IC. New they are like $1200 but can be had for $700-$800 on the partstrader.

so, if i go with the greddy 24v 2 row, i am going to lose ac?

oh and another issue i am trying to figure out is if i should get a mp. i heard that if you do your exhaust is really loud. does a resonated mp help? do i need to make another other mods to support a mp? and can that airpump come out?

get a down pipe resonated mp and open muffler, remove the air pump and get pulleys to get better belt to water pump contact or make an idler to replace the air pump like garfinkle did . can you say ECU.

\

You won't necessarily lose your AC. You just have to be creative when mounting it. I've seen where they take the AC condenser and face it flat to the ground, beneath the IC. Still keeps AC and you have a FMIC.

If you are concerned about the noise level, then get a resonated MP. BE WARNED. ECU IS REQUIRED before going without a catalytic converter.

Air pump can DEFINITELY come out. Greddy pulley kit.:D

ok i know i need a ecu without cat... i ain't that challenged. ok so, is it that hard to remount the a/c? and isn't the unorthadox kit better because it replaces 4(wp, ps, main, ac?) pulleys instead of 2(wp, ps?). and what about porting the wastegate with a midpipe? is that needed?

I know it has been said by others and I will say it again, if you want a fmic with the most complete kit get the Blitz fmic. I just finished installing mine last weekend and I can't express enough how nice the kit is, extremely high quality and everything fits the way it is supposed to. The damn instructions were in Japanese w/xeroxed pictures and even I figured it out. And the best part is that you don't have to remove the front bumper to install it! A/C is retained, from the front of the car it goes fmic-AC condensor-radiator.. it even comes with new brackets to hold down the battery in a new position (you need a smaller than stock battery though ie PC680). It works nicely with the stock twins and can definitely handle a single turbo, the core is quite large. The hardest part of working out the A/C is that you have to dump the system and reroute/bend a bunch of the lines and then get it recharged.

If you run a downpipe/midpipe/catback combo you WILL need an ECU, and you may want to port your wastegates as boost creep is not uncommon with this setup.

Matt
93 SSM

fmic????
 

what do you guys do about the overheating issue? and do not just reply and say "mine does not run hot". ok, i know about all of the radiators and shit, but there are still a bunch of issues to overcome. i have seen too many sevens leave the track overheated. not the drag strip, a road course. that is the kind of driving i am talking about. constant boost, and cosistantly constant high engine temps.......i think that a fmic is great, but will the simple installation of a FAL fan on a radiator and the use of a good coolant like evan's do the trick???

have any pics?
also, i do a fair amount of interstate driving. should i have concerns about a FMIC being damaged due to road debris (rocks, sand, etc.)? i was planning on going with an M2 unit or something similar this summer, but you guys have me thinking about an FMIC now.

also, with the blitz kit, is cutting the front bumper cover necessary? or any other permanent modifications

Nothing major..just some minor trimming, the only thing you have to cut is the brackets that hold up the bottom of the radiator.. they double as the sway bar mounts. The edge of those have to be trimmed off to use the new brackets provided with the kit. Other than that just a little trimming of the underbelly pan where it contacts those brackets with a dremel.. I also had a problem with the rear of the radiator fans running into the crossmember the battery/stock IC mount to. This was due to the extra thickness I had from using a Fluidyne, if you have this or a Koyo you will have this problem.. again remedied with some minor trimming of the crossbar. I wouldn't have been so quick to use a fmic without an upgraded radiator as well. Xplicit does have a valid point as well, all my car sees is the street with an occasional autoX or drag session.. I don't road race it. Another plus with the Blitz fmic is that it is not pushed right up to the front of the bumper like I see with the Apex/Greddy kits, it looks a little odd and is very prone to rocks flying into it on the freeway.. the Blitz mounts inside the engine bay so it ends up being pushed back a little further.

I'll take some pics tonight and post them tomorrow..

Matt
93 SSM

IMO and I stress IMO and understanding is that if you are into drag racing - go FMIC. There are less issues with heat soak and the possibility of overheating your engine during a single 1/4 mile run is small. If you are into road racing and track driving then stick with a larger SMIC. The issue of engine overheating becomes much more important than the issue of heat soaking your IC.
Think about what one of the above have said: "from the front of the car it goes fmic-AC condensor-radiator." For the track this is bad - the radiator being the last item to see cooling air. It's you're call. I have been driving road courses since early 1998 and *all* of the hardcore FD's I have seen that have stood the test of time run a large SMIC - with the exception of one (he does however run a vented hood) But from reading this age old discussion for the 7 years I have been an FD owner this is the conclusion I drew. One more thing, either FMIC or SMIC can help you make big power. It is not a question of where it is located but how well the piping is designed and the quality of the core.
Regards
Crispy
Formerly with PFS SMIC now with CWC SMIC with picture for comparison purposes attached

I agree with the above post 100% with one exception. On the track (well anywhere for that matter) overheating IS the major issue, I couldn't agree more. But when I am puttsing around in my car on the freeway, off the freeway, stoplight to stopsign the smic does heatsoak very quickly.. rising intake temps can also ruin your motor. Another member on this forum just popped their motor at the track (1/4 mile) running a smic, the cause seemed to be from doing multiple runs with rising intake temps. It is important from the start to determine what you plan to do with the car before picking an intercooler, for me a front mount made sense.. it may not for you or someone else.

Matt
93 SSM

Nice followup Matt. I think it might be worth noting that any IC will heatsoak without airflow regardless of location. As in stop light to stop light driving. Just that a SMIC will heatsoak earlier due to the higher ambient underhood temperatures. Also a word of caution about pointing an accusing finger at one specific component as the cause of a "popped" motor. The IC may have been a contributing factor but it may also have been a overly hot motor (from running those back to back runs without sufficient cooldown in between runs - the radiator needs airflow too to be an effective cooler even with those fans humming away on the high setting), could have been improper fuel management or at least inadequate to cope with the higher intake air temps, it could have been many things.
Regards,
Crispy

i have quastions about this as well, i plan to raod race the FD i understand that the radiator will be the first thing i need, i wonder since the upgraded radiator means more cooling can u then use a fmic? so u can get the cooler air to your motor? or is it better to have the upgraded radiator and use a larger smic?

btw nice thread, finally people are discussing things instead of saying this is better then that and i like this.

If you plan on doing any road racing I would definitely consider cooling to be your major priority, get an upgraded radiator and stick with a smic. An upgraded radiator does help with cooling, but on the track it won't save you with a front mount.

Matt
93 SSM

so comes my next quastion then. is there a way to mount an aftermarket radiator such as fluidyne or koyo, upright with a smic or should i just keep its stock location, and with which IC shoudli go with (give a few options pelase) i am planning on keepign the stock twins and doing a few, upgrades such as, catback, MAYBE MP, intake?, and boost no higher then 12 psi i know i need fuel managment with that stuff but what chip shoudl i go with , i dont wanna shell out 1+k for a stand alone...or can i just raise the fuel pressure with a rising rate FPR?

I'll preface the following comments byt saying I agree with matt :)

>so comes my next quastion then. is there a way to
>mount an aftermarket radiator such as fluidyne or
>koyo, upright with a smic or should i just keep
>its stock location,

There is always a way. Depends on how good a fabricator you are. I have seen this setup but they were all on all out stripped to the bone race cars

>and with which IC shoudl i go
>with (give a few options pelase) i am planning on >keepign the stock twins and doing a few, upgrades
>such as, catback, MAYBE MP, intake?, and boost no
>higher then 12 psi

I run CAI, IC, DP, CB, high flow cat, with a PFC.
When on the track I run 10psi of boost. I have an upgraded radiator. Formerly I was using the PFS intake and IC system. This is more than adequate for a novice to intermediate track driver. I used this setup for 4 years. I have since been wanting to run a little bit more power on the track so decided the end of last year to try 12 psi of boost. In moderate ambient temperatures (mid 80's)
air intake temps exceeded what I would consider my comfort level - due both to the stock turbo's pumping harder and the smaller size of the PFS IC. I have since upgraded to the much larger CWC IC.
What I'm getting at is that if you are new to track driving then virtually any SMIC - Blitz, Greddy, PFS will suffice - the stock IC will NOT. Want to make doing the track thing your dedicated hobby,ie going to the track once a month or more get a larger SMIC: Pettit or M2 - however the larger M2 and Pettit require bettery mods also.
OBWT stick to 10 pis on the track...it will be plenty fast with those mods. Trust me :)

>i know i need fuel managment
>with that stuff but what chip shoudl i go with ,
>i dont wanna shell out 1+k for a stand alone...or
>can i just raise the fuel pressure with a rising
>rate FPR?

I defer to my compatriots on this one
Regards,
Crispy

I am interested in seeing specs on an install for mounting a aftermarket radiator upright
-d

How hard is the Greddy 2 row FMIC to install? Does anyone have pictures of there installs?

man talk about coming back from the dead... i was like wtf i don't remember posting that. but someone around here has install pics... i just can't remember

Striker,

I ended up going with the M2 Large SMIC becuase the I didn't want to mess with the FMIC install. From all that i read, the FMIC install is a real PITA!.

You don't have to relocate the battery with the M2/ASP large SMIC...the mini battery fits in the stock location next to the Smic. I can email you a pic of mine if you want.

John

Striker,

I ended up going with the M2 Large SMIC becuase the I didn't want to mess with the FMIC install. From all that i read, the FMIC install is a real PITA!.

You don't have to relocate the battery with the M2/ASP large SMIC...the mini battery fits in the stock location next to the Smic. Here's a pic:

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=96505
John

i want more info on the a/c situation. i plan on using a npr i/c and DON'T want to lose my a/c. i don't plan on driving this car everyday, but definitly don't want to drive it anyday w/out air....yeah,yeah,yeah except in the winter.(i'm sure somebody would say something about that). anyway, going to school check back tonight. gimme answers!! please

wow that looks good... especially with the polished airbox. thats the m2 box right? just in alum?

Ok this is a newbe question but has anyone out a fan behind their IC to help with airflow?

Also what does smin stand for.. (no flames please as I would not ask if I knew)

talk to vosko the forum member i belive he has the gredddy one

Stock Mount Inter Cooler

thanks

Word of advise. If you want to get an aftermarket intercooler get you ecu first. Many people make this mistake over the years I know of many people who have killed there engine because they do not do things in correct order. If you have catback or any mod on exhaust & an induction kit your ok without running lean. If you do any other mod after this you'll run lean. You'll feel great power increase etc but I bet you withing next 5,000 miles you'll have dead engine. The intercooler not only cools the intake charge, when the intake charge is cooled and becaomes more dense it means that more inatke charge is aloud into engine. cooler air means more power, but cooler air and more volume of air means alot more power. So my point is not only do you get cooler air in the engine you get alot more air in the engine because the more cooler the air is the more dense it becomes, the more dense it becomes means the more room there is for more. If you have a lot more air in your engine without any compensation for more fuel you will run lean, have higher combustion temperature, detonation = dead engine alot quicker. Get ecu upgrade first then you are safe to mess around with intercooler, but don't make the mistake of doing the intercooler and think you only need ecu for mid pipe, you'll regret it.

Regards

Brian

another word to the wise

that little greddy is a POS....and is way too small.

get a real intercooler...not something barely better than stock.

j

the m2 large is the way to go. its huge and it performs.

Ok, so I read the whole post in hopes of finding out what Large SMIC I can purchase (don't care if I have to relocate the battery) that will work with my twins and then will also work when I go single next year...anyone?

I think most people would agree that the M2 large is the best "large" SMIC.

rynberg: caveat that "best large SMIC *currently available*" ;)
Regards,
Crispy
- user of a very fine CWR "large" SMIC

so can it be used with both the twins and a single?

Is the CWR = Crooked Willow Racing (sp) bigger than the M2?

i was planing on going with the Blitz FMIC. Any reason for me not to? From reading this i didnt really get any feel that i shouldnt, but i was hoping it could MAYBE get addressed a bit more for me.

Also, Just for arguments sake, If i got a new IC and had a boost controler and limited my boost to 10psi would i still run lean even if i didnt have an upgraded ecu?

Hank

If you mount a fan on the intercooler will it compensate for heat soak?

Sorry...didn't see earlier post.

Rikki, what intake charge temps are you getting there this time of year???

apneablue:
Yes CWR = Crooked Willow Racing
Yes it can be used with twins or a single
Yes it is marginally bigger than the M2 large
CWR SMIC core dim. 13" x 17" x 3.5" = 773.5cuin volume
ASP race (M2 large)12.55" x 17" x 3.5" = 746.7cuin volume
In either case they are both HUGE - splitting hairs but I much prefer the end tank design of the CWR vs the M2

Regards,
Crispy

Crispy,
thanks...do you have the CRW SMIC? if yes, did you have to relocate your battery and how was the fitment?

R U twin or single?

here's his website (nice website by the way!)

http://www.negative-camber.org/crispyrx7/cwric.htm

http://ebay0.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_...c1/i-3_B_L.JPG

Go with the stock one like this guy did. :wtf:

The M2 Med is likely the functionally optimal SMIC, imo. Due to the limited ducted airflow, the large M2 bulk will rarely show a significant performance advantage over the Med, which is also under ducted. Example would be once cooled to ambient, the large will provide slightly cooler air at the end of a dyno run, road sprint, or auto x, due to more pre-cooled mass in core. SCC meas'd only 6F advantage with 3rd gear run. But at road course, same max temp due to limited ducted air.

At road course, the fmic will give colder charge air, but overheating coolant is issue. The M2's will hold charge temps to a reasonable limit . At thunderhill, 85F day, scc meas'd 158F with M2 Med, vs 248F with stock IC, 13 psi boost. With M2 IC and m-comp rad, coolant was 210F max.

Traffic crawl with ac on will blow hot underhood air back thru smic. Fan on smic will control heak soak well.

FD fans:

http://www.rotarypowered.com/img/pic...ntercooler.gif

http://www.maxcooper.com/rx7/how-to/ic_fan/index.html

FD IC's:

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/i...olers.html#FAN

So what about Chuck Huang's RE HMIC
 

He uses a huge and efficient core with 935 cfm capacity? Is the HMIC another option for road racers if the SMIC is not ideal for using an Anfini Y-pipe??

http://www.rotaryextreme.com/rehmic.html