Which Intercooler?
 

OK, I have done some reading. I am trying to figure out which front mount intercooler will be best for the following setup.

Rotorsports Racing Stage II Motor w/ Streetport
Sound Performance modded Pt74 Turbo
I don't plan on running more than 15 lbs of boost and definitely won't ever break 20PSI. I am looking for 400-450RWHP

I guess I am between the Apexi, or Greddy 3 Row.

I can't find the PSI rating for the Apexi(though I have to admit the only sites I have checked are the RX7Store and the manufacturer site, I will continue to look after I post this thread). How much will it hold safely/consistently? I am leaning towards the Apex, because my understanding is that the fit/install is better than the Greddy since I am going to keep the stock bumper for a while.

I suppose the advantage of the Greddy Intercooler with a Greddy Turbo would be an easier match, since you would hope that they designed everything to work together. How hard is a 3 - row to wedge into the stock front bumper?

I am also open to suggestions if I have overlooked a particular manafacturer.

Thanks,
Josh

the apexi can support al ot more that 15psi for sure ( i was at 10psi and still flows pretty well)

but if u dont plan to chane yo stock bumper or dont want to cut or trim GO w/ the apexi

and u dont even have to remove the bumper for instal

the greddy 3row is just huge and lots of cuttin is involved if using stock bumper

but the surface area of the ic is massive , great for c west front bumpers

just depends on how much work u want to do

hope that helps, also there are many threads on fmic's (search button is your friend) ;)

mike

i loved my apexi one. worked very well with the t78. just a suggestion though, if you're not going to run any more boost than that, a 74mm turbo may not be ideal. chances are you're going to be using the car a lot on the street and a turbo that big is going to make you hate life. i'd recommend a 61-67mm turbo for a nice, street driven, pump gas app

thanks guys. i did a search, but nothing that specifically answered my questions. i knew the info about the apexi fit. unfortunately i still haven't found the max PSI rating for the thing.

spoolin you are probably right, but I got a hell of a deal on the setup. i got to drive it before purchasing it and it pulls pretty hard even at lower boost. Also it always gives me the potential to crank it up later when the car starts feeling slow again. ;)

Maybe the GReddy 2 row over the 3 row? Everyone I've talked to says the 2 row is the way to go.

no1 else? nobody knows the PSI rating of the Apex? I searched and searched and couldnt find an answer. Maybe one of the search guru's can turn it up, but I damn sure couldn't. I suppose I could call Apex'i but who wants to do that. :D

Spooling what kind of boost were you running on that T78?

I wrote a big long explanation and lost it by clicking on a link on a email that just came in before I submitted the post. I dont have the energy to do it again so here is the summary:

Whatever FMIC you buy get a aftermarket radiator.

If your max boost will be around 15-17 use the greddy 2 row or apexi.

If you have/are getting an aftermarket nose and arent afraid of hacking up the bumper reinforcement then go with the greddy.

Otherwise go with apexi.

Thanks, Shawn, I've got a Fluidyne already and am heavily leaning towards the Apex since I dont wanna cut my bumper and prefer to have the IC sit further back from road.

How's your setup going?

There is no max psi rating for the IC. Yes, I am sure it would pop at some pressure (50? 100? I don't know), but it is way more pressure than you intend to run. These "ratings" aren't a max pressure for the IC before it pops.

When people say "don't run more than X psi on this intercooler", don't take it as a hard limit -- it is just a rough and imperfect guideline. It is really flow, rather than psi that matters, but psi of boost is a rough indication of flow given a particular engine, so people give ratings in boost pressure (though flow still varies pretty widely for a given boost level even on the same engine). Flow matters because every IC starts to become a significant restriction at some flow level, so you want to pick one that isn't going to be too much of a restriction (how much is too much? its subjective) for your intended maximum flow level. The price of resitriction is power. So it does make some sense, but take ratings like this with a big grain of salt.

If you want to learn about it (to empower yourself to make good parts selection choices for your car, troubleshoot issues, and generally become a turbo pimp), buy and read Maximum Boost and/or another turbo book from cover to cover. And search for discussions of "pressure drop" on this forum. Be warned, though, that there are a lot of false/nonsense statements like "I installed a new IC and my boost pressure is the same as before -- my new IC doesn't have any pressure drop" in the threads.

-Max

Max,

Thank you very much. That is exactly the type of info I was looking for. I will definitely pick up the book and scround it for info. So, generally I should think about the flow rating. The ratings that the companies are giving are, what they feel is the maximum psi that you can run while maintaining flow efficiency. however, this is only a guideline and there are more factors to consider...as usual. :)

Also, thanks for everyone that put in their advice. I feel more confident going forward.

It sounds like you understand now. Wow, no one understands that the first time. You must be very smart! :D

The bad news is that there is very little real data about the different IC choices out there. However, there are a lot of good ICs available and in general the ones that turned out to be dogs aren't really available anymore. I think you would be fine with any of the ones mentioned in this thread so far. We know they all perform reasonably well, so the choice may really come down to installation details.

-Max

Thanks again. I think the Apexi is the intercooler of choice for me. Top notch quality and an easy install. since I won't be running ridiculous boost I think it will provide more than sufficient performance.

I am still going to pick up the Maximum Boost book, just for educational purposes and so I won't have to ask newbie questions like this one.

BTW: scround = scrounge :D

i thought maximum boost was out of print?

Selecting an intercooler is similar to any other modification- what are you willing to sacrifice? You want more flow- you get pressure drop- you want efficiency-at what boost levels, and remember air to air units require a significant amount of airflow across the core to reach the designed efficiency point. Spearco is the only manufacturer that I know of that actually provides flow and pressure loss graphs of their intercooler cores. The Apexi Intercooler works very well- we recently recorded the air temp rise on an engine with the Apexi Intercooler and a T76 turbo at 22-24 psi of boost on a 70 degree day- the temperatures only rose 20 degrees from ambient on 15 (or more) 22 psi pulls in 3rd and 4th gear-on the road. Not our most scientific method but we were nevertheless impressed with how little the temperature increased on this particular car. I should mention this car has sealed ducting to both the Intercooler and separate ducting to the radiator so results are not typical of the "hung out in the airdam" approach that is more the norm that we see. FWIW we selected a Greddy 2-row with water injection for our 3-rotor 7, after studying all the options it simply made the most sense to use a more effiecient air to air unit and use water injection only on occasions.
Regards,
Bryan
Rotorsports Racing Inc.

intercooler
 

Run the T74 turbo and buy this spearco from me its a perfect fit 27" wide x 13" heigh x 4.5 thick...I used it with my T-72 and it was very efficient at 18-22 psi.

pic attached.

Has anyone dealt with -andre sinclair- in purchasing things before? I want to buy this FMIC from him and he seems like a nice and trust worthy guy, i just want an outsiders opinion please. p.s. i know this belongs in good guy bad guy but it pertains to his FMIC on this post. Mods move if you must.

To check out my integrity and honest, PM rotary resurrection, I sold him a digital compression in the amount of 1200.00 6 month ago.

I apologize for hoping your thread.

no problems guys. I am pretty much dead set on the apexi. if not i will cheap out and go with a Greddy 2-row, since one can be had for about half the price as the apexi.

I have the car just about sorted out. I am planning on doing the chin HPDE at VIR in december but that is still up in the air. The car is ready but we will see if it works out.

I have the latest info on the car on my site - just a few mods left to do.

BTW I dont have any problem with the IC being right up on the nose. And when you look at the price for the apexi it gives a strong arguement for the greddy 2 row. You didnt say whether you were going with an aftermarket nose - that would be the deciding factor for me I think. I have a much larger than stock opening with my nose and I still have a third of the greddy covered up. I believe the apexi's mount is not only further back but a bit lower than the greddy (though I may be wrong) and with a stock nose that would be better (because over half of the greddy would be covered).

i think the stock front end will stay on there for quite a while. eventually i hope to go with a 99spec front. so, that is another argument for the apexi.

glad you got the car mostly worked out, i know it has been somewhat of a struggle, but i am sure it is worth it now that the car is running well.

Okay i know this isn't gonna be about which brand to get, but i was talking to x605p747R1 and he told me some good advice, which was to make sure that i get a high flow intercooler. Now what cfm should i look for when getting an intercooler, i read dub's post about Bell intercoolers and im gonna buy one of them. So any help would be greatly appreciated.