Injector Question
 

i sent my injectors off to be cleaned a while back, and now i'm trying to install them. but for some reason, my primaries don't seem right. it's been several months since i took the car apart so i can't remember exactly how the injectors looked before i sent them off. the primaries don't have the little caps on them like the secondaries do, they just have an open end. and there's also a small ring (part of the nozzle) right before the tip. sorry the pics aren't too great, but is this right?

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...t/IMG_4091.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...t/IMG_4090.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...t/IMG_4087.jpg

i found a pair of these nozzles in my fuel rail bag, but i can't remember if they were actually on the injectors or what. they don't fit on them now, though.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...t/IMG_4089.jpg

thanks in advance.

use the flower setting on your camera

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...t/IMG_4094.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...t/IMG_4095.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...t/IMG_4096.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...t/IMG_4097.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...t/IMG_4098.jpg

Those extra nozzles look like what's on my injectors. But if the injector rebuilder put the black ones on they should be fine.

Not sure if it's wise to run without any nozzle - IIRC they do help to hold an o-ring in place.

I clean injectors and hate to see FD Primary injectors... They ALWAYS have a cracked pintle cap and you have to replace it in order for the injector to flow. The pintle cap is what holds the o-ring in place to create the seal on the bottom to feed the injector from the side. The problem is that there is no "correct" cap for the primary available. This means you need to modify another cap.

From what I can see in those blurs is that the correct cap was used, o-ring looks right, but the cap was not modified correctly or installed upside down??. I say upside down because I cant imagine what that lip at the end of the cap is for. This is normally formed into the top of the cap to create a ledge for the o-ring to sit on. I will take a picture of the correct way and post it for you.


BTW, are you having trouble installing them or just questioning them not looking right? They look as if they will work ok, just that the pintle cap is a little longer than it should be. (Usually not an issues that causes fittment issue)

it's really difficult to get into the rail, which is what first got my attention. the secondaries popped in without a problem. the small cap in the last pic of the first post is what is on each of the secondary injectors, the primaries look totally different with the open nozzle. i found the two extra caps in a baggy, but like i said, it's been a long time (look at the dates between my last update and the one before it in the link in my sig) since i've been able to mess with anything so i don't remember where exactly the little brown caps come from. sorry, i'm not sure the exact terminology for them or each part.

the problem with installation is that i think the lip toward the end of the nozzle is keeping the injector from getting seated in the rail. i just wanted to make sure before i modify (and possibly ruin) the injectors.

Just curious, who cleaned your injectors (I'm assuming the same company provided those nice caps ;) )?

Deatsch Werks, back in Febuary. it was their basic service: http://www.deatschwerks.com/catalog/...r_services.php

Picture of NEW Secondary Injector and Parts #s
 

Don't know if this will help... but here's a link to my thread that shows NEW OEM replacement injectors.... the one shown is the Primary Injector https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...2&d=1196622537

Also, the injector boxes shown have the correct parts numbers for both the primary and secondaries. Hope this helps... I can tell you that the Primaries are Purple colored when new.... and are longer than the secondaries.

Primary Injectors Installed in Housing
 

:icon_tup: Here's a shot of the primaries installed in their housing prior to final assembly.... https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...3&d=1196622537 I hope this helps avoid the :wallbash: feeling... Good Luck ! :)

you must've ninja-edited this, because i read it ten times and it confused the crap out of me, now it makes sense, haha. thing is, my injectors are Denso, not Sard. so they're brownish (primaries) and reddish (secondaries). these are the injectors that were in the car when i bought it, and the car was stock, so i don't know why the fuel injectors would be any different. i don't have any pics of them before cleaning, but here's a pic from when i first pulled the rails out months ago:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...rsandRails.jpg

Hard to tell from the pics, but almost looks like the pintle caps are mushroomed. Send them back or if thats not an option I think I have one set of rebuilt 550s laying around.

they aren't damaged, though, that's just the design of the tip. would it be safe to just sand down the portion that sticks out?
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2.../IMG_4096b.jpg

anyone have any more input on this?

As Keith mentioned above, you should be able to modify the cap to remove the edge at the bottom.

cool, thanks for everyone's help. i'll try it later tonight and we'll see how it goes.

I wouldnt just "sand them down" as you can cause damage to the pintle leaving the injector unusable. They would need to be removed from the injector and cut at the TOP (o-ring side). I am sure that you will damage the cap when removing it leaving it unusable again. if you do damage it, I have the caps you would need. They are item 3-103 found here: http://injector-rehab.com/outpatient/injectorparts.htm
If you run into trouble I can offer you support on exactly how to modify them if you run into trouble if you do have to get new caps.

my primaries don't have this cap:
http://injector-rehab.com/images/PintleCaps/3-103.jpg

mine are completely open:
https://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h...t/IMG_4098.jpg

now i'm really confused. did Deatsh Werks just put on the wrong caps, or what? i pulled the o-ring down, and i can see where the plastic tip sticks onto the injector, but it's on there really tightly and i can't even budge it with my fingers. i don't want to try any tools on it for fear of damaging it. thoughts?

exactly what I said... you are not going to get that cap off to modify it correctly without damaging the current cap.

it does not need to be that open (like the one you have) and should be like the one i directed you to. ;)

Alright, I'll jump in here! I've dealt with way too many injectors in my time. It seems you having a problem installing them into the rail? What is your problem?

I'm gathering that that rim at the end is tightening up at the base of the primary rail. I've never seen open ended pintle caps before, so this is a first for me. Witchhunter uses a black cap with a pin hole in the end. The more closed end IMO just protects the injector valving.

These open ended caps are ok in the sense that if they hit a flat surface the valve is protected. Though, if some foreign opject got inside this open area and hit the valve it would definitely cause damage. Just use a craft razor pen to cut the rim off. Sanding would leave fine objects behind that could god forbid get back into the valve seat.

Fill me in on any details I didn't read or should know. This seems simple enough!

i may have you beat.. haha! j/k bro!

Seeing so many injectors, you must have seen an open ended cap before. ;) The pin hole style is the closest you can get to the OEM. Same one I linked him to. The LENGTH of it is what makes it not exactly correct as I previously stated.

they are "ok" but not at the current length from what I can see. if the "sanding them down" means sanding the outside lip down, then yes... if it was meant to say the length... then NO. the pintle is way to close and fragile to sand the length down and should be replaced with the "correct" cap, modified differently than what is pictured.
I have no idea why they would use that cap to begin with....

Holy shit... I didn't even notice the depth in the caps Keith! HA, I just looked at the rim on the outside. I'll play your game though "Injector Rehab Man" :rlaugh: . I was going to shoot you a pm or email you. I like the site! Though I think it's a lil plane jane. More pictures of the Nurse :bigthumb:

the main problem i had first was that it couldn't fit into the rail because the lip was too wide. my idea was to get rid of the lip (the outer one, with the red arrow pointing to it in the pic above) by cutting it off, then carefully sanding it smooth. if the tip fit but was too long, then i'd cut the length down.

the second problem was that the opening was huge compared to the "pinhole" opening. is the small opening just for protection? would having a larger opening affect the car otherwise?

taking that outside edge off would be fine. The next issue you may have is the pintle cap sticcking to far down bellow the rail housing and causing a fitment issue with the diffusers.
the opening will effect the spray pattern (on some injectors). In your case with that large open ended cap, it should not with the OEM primary injector because of the design / angle of the end of the pintle and the volume of fuel flowed. I don't foresee an issue with it IMO

how long would it take and how much would it cost to get the correct caps fitted on?