How quick (0 - 60) can the average FD be made to do?
 

Reading thru the new MotorTrend, where it compares several cars:

"For this test, we gathered eight 2009 models: Chevrolet Cobalt SS, Dodge Caliber SRT4, Honda Civic Si, Mazdaspeed3, Mini Clubman S, Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart, Subaru Impreza WRX, Volkswagen GTI -- seven of which feature turbocharged four-bangers and two of which sport dual- clutch automatics or all-wheel drive."

nearly all of which equal or better a stock FD in 0 - 60 times....including...sigh...the friggin' COBALT!!!!

Makes one wonder what is the ideal gearing and hp to hook up for say...a 4 second or better 0 - 60 time? :scratch:

Link to full article:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/index.html

hahaha yea our 0-60 times are pretty bad. Having no low end power hurts of the line but once we get up to speed we do well.

ummm none of them beat it to 60 except the wrx which is no suprise being AWD and most of those cars have more horsepower than the fd.

your also comparing cars that are 15 years newer then the orig FD. stock to stock, most newer "semi-performace" vehicles have more then 255 engine horse power.

Whats with all these types of threads lately??

The insecurity of FD owners are at a all time high! LOL

To keep my post on track, i have to say that you're comparing a 15 year old car to modern technology.

Cars that can hit 13's in the 1/4 are a dime a dozen nowadays. This is the way the automotive world is moving. We shouldnt resist it nor ignore it. We should embrace it as it comes along.

I dont get these threads lately. Its almost like we need to remind ourselves the advantages of our cars (the little advantages that we got) just to make us feel better of actually owning the car.

Yeah these cars are old and to me its not that it does one thing great its that it does most things well for a sports car and well can be made great. basically this car is a great start for most car racing applications.

This car has good handling, speed, brakes and looks. Will you get all of that out of a cobalt? I dont think so but to each his own.

y'all gotsa to admit that it is semi frustrating, having these cars come out of the factory as fast as our stock cars...I don't have a ton of mods for mine yet and as such its not that fast. Really I love these cars for alot more than just the speed aspect, but its frustrating when the ignorant don't appreciate our cars because their inferior cars are as fast. I am not wording it right but I think someone out there can understand where I am coming from......they need to quit making cars that are fast :P

People forget tire technology has changed dramatically. Also the later gearing would make a difference.

0-100mph I think is the test people should be looking at more.

i strongly dissagree. i know of very few production cars that can beat our 0-60 time with equal or less horsepower/torque.

i thought the only wrx/sti model that could beat our 0-60 time is the new sti hatch...?

i think being able to match or keep up with awd, 300+hp cars is quite an accomplishment

good way to look at it gorden

now I'm wondering how fast my 360 HP FD w/ 285's will do the 0 -60.... need tracks to open up to get the 1/4

lol...damn, guys. All I asked was the question, more hypothetically than anything else. I personally don't give a rat's ass about it, I was merely pointing out that when the FD came out with its ~5 second 0 - 60 time, that was really SOMETHING. Not so much anymore.

Gordon, once again you see the clearest of them all. THAT was the answer I was looking for.

I agree on the 0-100 statement but not so much on the RWHP vs 1/4 time. Its very rare where you see an actual 400rwhp+ hit the 10 mark. I dont leech on the drag time section, or even the single turbo section much but when i do, there are people who cant hit the 10 mark and they have wellllll over 400rwhp. I dont wanna mention names but they know who they are. I know there are alot of reasons why they cant hit a 10 but i think just for that fact, you cant say any FD with about 425rwhp can hit 10, cause i believe thats impossible. IT SHOULD technically but WONT.

Nah this is a good topic, with good cars in it. I dont think the OP wanted to know what car SHOULD replace the FD, maybe he wanted this topic to lean towards what car would be great in addition with the FD. The cars mention make great daily drivers. ITs practical, its fast, good aftermarket support, reliable. None of them will ever, even if they tried to replace the FD. But i think it makes a good addition car.

The MS3 can hit 155 stock trim. Thats with governor. I think stock gearing will allow just slightly over 160mph but whats the point of that? Who does over 160mph on public roads anyway?? Just recently i did a 4th gear pull to 117mph and i almost crapped myself. Maybe its because i dont often go that fast so when i do, its scary but a top speed argument here is rather dumb IMHO.

Whoa whoa gordon, nova's arent pos's lol. Maybe he powerplant was kinda gay but a nova is NOW a classic time piece. Just like our cars would be in the future. Cars mentioned arent pieces of shit. Just because they offer performance for bang for buck. They are basically answering the consumers wishes on making a car thats fast, for a price thats affordable. We should thank them.



FYI, dont take what i said personally gordon, we need a discussion like this today :) its sunday morning and im bored. Ill prob go take a cruise in the FD in a bit lol

Sounds like a CAPITAL idea! Nice cool morning here, the car will be making all sorts of power....oh YEAH! :icon_tup:

I really like most all the points you made, but I have an issue with this one:

I agree that not all the above mentioned are not poorly made econo-box junkers, but the neon for SURE is, and the cobalt is not far off. I am not really sure if I want to thank chevrolet and dodge for producing such cars like this. All they really made is a cheaply made car that goes pretty quick that most younger drivers can afford. That starts getting dangerous b/c we again have young inexperienced drivers in quick cars thinking they need to reenact scenes from some stupid movie or pick races with everyone out driving on the street whether it is some honda civic, an FD, or some corvette they pull up next to. I WOULD be thanking these companies more if there were more responsible people out there but we all know that is a joke. Please don't take this personally, I just disagree.

To the OP, yeah I think it is a little frustrating too but that has been the progression of the automotive industry the last several years. I am glad they have gotten back to producing cars with acceleration in mind. I think most FD's around now are not in totally stock form and a good majority are in the 300whp area and should not have a problem out-accelerating any of the above mentioned cars to 60mph.

I nailed a 4.2XX 0-60 years ago using a Gtech meter on stock suspension and stock wheels/tires. My mods were at the time: CAI, pulleys, Pettit Unlimited ECU, M2 large IC, DP, catback, 9.5lb flywheel. My buddy was in the car with me and we pulled over to setup his GTech. Only did it once as we had to wait for the road to be clear. I was running about 14psi too. I thought I had a decent launch but not as good as I could of had it. I was pretty shocked it came up that low. I'm pretty confident that a better driver could of gotten even lower. Id really like to try it again just out of curiosity as I have a few more minor mods that could trim it down even more. But I dont like how you have to beat on the clutch to get the best launch.

Nah def wont take this personally. Im just glad im interacting with some of the great vets here since im not experienced enough to join discussions in more technical sections of the forum :) Im happy right now :D

But yeah i dont think dodge nor chevy cared about wreckless driving and how dangerous it would be that a kid straight out of high school can now buy a 13 second car for pennies on the dollar. Their main goal was sales and to put their name out that they did it, they can make a fast car for under 20k. That was the srt-4's goal. Fastest car for 20 grand. Sure it looked like crap, the interior is cheap as hell but that wasnt their concern. They put a beefy engine in there and said, "ok kids, here it is, go nuts".

That doesnt change the fact that these are still awesome cars for the dollar. Even to this day, with the BIG depreciation these cars already have, i would still buy one (if i actually wanted one), just to have a fun daily driver.

Remember they didnt make those cars for anything else BUT aim at younger kids who want speed. I mean that was their intention. They did and succeeded.

Of course. I mean with all respect, i understand because of your age. (my dad is the same way :).

But like i said in my prior post, car manufacturers didnt intend to aim at the general audience. It was mainly for the younger crowd who want speed for cheap. The MS3, with just a couple of grand more IMHO, is WAY BETTER than a cobalt and srt4 in terms of everything. The engine is simply astonishing. I mean 280lbs of torque @ 3000rpm?? Wow, where do i sign up?

That being said, i appreciate more older classics myself. But i dont forget the fact that the newer modern cars out now are awesome machines. Technology helps the world go round. When you put that in conjunction with the automotive world, it brings great things. We just need to learn how to adapt.

i think about it like this..it took all these car company`s 15 years to catch up.what other 4 cylinder car was doing 13.5 in a 1/4 in 1993? not many i think.

On the desirability scale, the FD beats them all. Forever.

Please dont mention a Gtech when we're all talking facts.

I think the high speed aspect is a very valid point. With the right gearing even low HP cars can have decent 0-60 acceleration. But who stops racing at 60? I certainly don't. On the street you race until it's apparent one car is definitely faster then the other, at least on the highway, which is where most my races have been encountered. One thing about rx7's, even basically stock they don't even begin to start losing momentum even after 130+ MPH. I think a cobalt would be hard pressed to hang with an rx7 on the highway. 6 years ago my car had a downpipe, & K&N airfilter, thats it, i had my car over a 160 on a fairly regular basis. I would like to see a cobalt do that. I was killing corvettes, mustangs, camaro's and ram air firebirds on a regularly with 250 RWHP and a 2700 LB car.

The second thing to look at is the potential. The small rotary engine needs very little to put it in the 360+ HP range with the stock twins. Get a single and some AUX injection and 450-500+ reliable HP can be obtained. At that point cobalts and neons are a joke. You're now smoking vipers and porches. It would take a lot of money, time, work and a miracle to get cobalts and neons to that level.

And if a stock cobalt beats a stock rx7 on the track or street then someone needs to learn how to drive that rx7 cause it is probably a 17 YO in that cobalt.

It's meant as a reference as in it most likely can be done. My understanding of the guys original post is he wanted to see if low 0-60s are possible. Where did I say the GTECH was accurate? You want to call me out on facts? Well here ya go then. Here's my timeslip from Etown a couple of years ago. I'm on the right. I raced my buddy in an auto 300ZXTT with drag radials, who coincidentally, did 4.0 0-60 on the same Gtech meter on the same day. I'm sure the math whizzes here could theoretically determine what my 0-60 was that day or the potential.
Not that I really care, but I'm fired up due to you singleing me out when everyone else is "talking facts"

edit: I just happened to find this site: http://s2nd.com/convert-eighth-mile-...ty-calculator/

According to that my 0-60 was 3.7 Although, it may not be "talking facts" either there is a disclaimer

1qwik7, if you almost poo'ed your pants getting up to 117 mph you definitely don't want to ride with me.....on a deserted highway last I night I topped out 4th gear at 140ish mph and the car felt freaking great in this cold weather. My 500R makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside :D

Well the road i was on wasnt that "clear" so i was a bit scared to keep going. Car felt strong and def had alot in her but i was told im a sissy driver so i guess that played a part in that.

I did hit 145 in my car before, back when i first got it. I had more balls back then though :D

My friends modded C6 we got up to 160mph. It gets up there pretty fast and it felt like i had tunnel vision.

But riding in a fast car and driving a fast car are 2 different point of views, its def scary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-DFbJQbeSY

Thats how accurate the Gtechs are.

I did 138 mph in my old 89 turbo II in the new jersey turnpike my hart was pounding and i had sweaty palms but it was cool tho.since i still can`t get my FD running right i dunno how the FD feels at 140.I am looking forward to see goodfellas FD in person,maybe even bribe him with a $20 dollar bill for a ride. J/K

To me, things start to get real interesting REAL quick once you hit 130 in a FD. At 140 - 145, it commands your FULL attention. Beyond that, which I have been to only a few times (158 max) I was...uncomfortable.

Nice!

Im gonna download that program onto my iphone :D

I'd actually be very interested to see some of the FD AutoX guys 0-60 times. I've driven alot of other cars in my search for a new vehicle, and will still be looking for a new daily driver once I get home... but the thing that makes the FD so attractive to me is it's a driver's car. It has great power, handling, braking... and none of the extra "options" that take away the driver's feel/feedback. I've tried to get away from the FD a couple of times, but nothing is as fun/exciting to drive. Anyone can get in the new GT-R and the car will make them look like a super hero. Don't get me wrong, I believe the GT-R is an amazing car... just not the car for me.

With the exception of the chevy and dodge I would agree. The subie and MS3 are the two nicest and best examples and respond well to modification. The subaru engine is really impressive. But the neon and cobalt are just too cheaply built. I mean come on dodge, you cannot even put power windows for the ppl riding in the back seat? I have been in both and they are just not impressive except for the fact they are pretty dang quick out of the box and could be made a good deal quicker. Some of those srt4's are just down right fast. But at the end of the day it is still just a fast econobox with no refinement and heritage. And I also totally agree what demographic they are aimed at and they did do a great job at getting them into children's hands. Anything to make a buck I guess.

In response to 1quik7's comment on the tunnel vision, yes be careful. That happens to the brain when it feels it is processing too much information at once. It takes time to get used to going fast and being able to properly process all the information coming at you. It happens to a lot of kids that get on 600cc bikes and think they are superman and can instantly drive at 150mph just b/c the bike can do it. Some never have problems going fast, others it takes a bit of work. I respect you for realizing this and not pushing yourself too far.

Anyone using their speedometer to measure 0-60 may be suprised at how inaccurate the factory speedometer gauge is. Even with good tread on my stock tires, I would always notice a 3mph discrepency or more when I would drive past those police radar stations.

ive done 160+ before not sure exactly how fast but it was a little over 160

Hey Gordon, thanks! Yes, I'll be at the Carlisi meet for sure...had a blast at the first one. This time I'll be able to drive in the cruise and not worry about bad coolant seals :)

I agree that with stock gearing and stock tires, the factory speedometer is off. Ive driven past radar stations and they would indicate slightly lower. I have one magazine(can't remember the one) in which they do a comparison with a 3000GT, Vette, 300ZX and FD. All cars did an indicated 60mph, but the FD was clocked at 58 when the speedometer said 60.

I've gone up to an indicated 165mph on a backroad before with 255-40-17 tires and 4.10 gears. It was quite hairy due to the front, toe-out and rear toe-in I run at autox.

Riding in Rich's car was definitely an eye-opening event. Not only is his car fast, but those brakes flat-out STOP the car from triple digit speeds with little effort.

Sweet find. Now I can justify buying the iPhone!

Our cars still have huge advantages over the newer cars that run stock 13 sec 1/4 mile times.

How many of those cars can add a $350.00 full exhaust and run a high 12? Doubt that any of them can. I know I have personally seen a fd go as low as an 8.2 in the 1/8th with just a full exhaust and no other mods on street tires. Greatest thing about our generation of Japanese sports cars is they left a lot of untapped power available. The supra, the 300zx and the rx7 can run with most super cars on the road with just an exhaust and ecu upgrade.

As far as top speeds, I have personally been in a fd where we took the needle over to 180, it was on 19" wheels so I am unsure what the correct speed was, I was in the passenger seat and never want to relive that experience again ;) I have personally taken one up to around 160 in my younger days when I was invisible, but dont think I have been north of 120 in several years now :)

I had my FD over 145 when I test drove it back in WA... it was enough to put a smile on my face and close the deal. The true feedback this car gives you at 90+ is outright addictive.


As a disclaimer - I would definitely NOT do this on a non WIDE OPEN road. In fact, save it for the track ;) At least travel the open road mulitple times prior to doing your speed run. You don't want the first time you realize there is a loose gravel spot on your road to be in the middle of a 7K shift from 3rd to 4th in WOT.

I couldn't agree with you more. :icon_tup:

I believe one must accept the fact that today’s technology in cars will always excel and become better and better. However, keep in mind that like the aforementioned, nothing will ever compare to the 3rd generation RX-7. For it's time, it was "the" car and these values remain to this day. Take a look at these new "fast" cars. Can you honestly say they look good? Yeah, they're not horrible, but they're not a PURE sports car. The RX-7 is THE pure sports car that so many strive and long for.

I personally think that many buy these newer "fast" tinker toys as an excuse. They may think highly of their car, which is all fair and good, but deep inside one has to know that they would rather have something with the entire "package". I've run into so many people with new neon srt4's, WRX's, and even faster newer cars that still would rather have an RX-7. Let's face it, as much as we find flaws in these cars, point out all of the difficulties, we are all still in love with them.

The RX-7 has set itself on a higher pedestal than all of its predecessors, and we know that.

Let's not compare and judge our loved pride and joys, let's praise them on what they are and not dwell on the negative.

Fast and cheap isn't reliable.
Reliable and cheap isn't fast.
Fast and reliable isn't cheap.

the wrx cant beat our FD 0-60
i raced my friends 07 WRX
im runnin 10 pounds non seq, and i probably weight about 3100 pounds

what about the RX8's Naught to Sixty?

is it better?