Haltech Elite Base Ignition Map
 

First off, yes I know there's a Haltech section, but it looks rather sad in terms of activity and content. I'm getting close to a first start-up on my FD with an Elite 1500 and was looking at the ignition map on the base map supplied by Haltech and thought it looked a bit odd. I've tuned a handful of piston stuff but tuning the rotary is new to me. Does this map look safe for a relatively stock FD with bolt-ons? Seeing negative numbers around idle/lower load ranges seems abnormal to me. Even negative timing at the high boost numbers (which the stock twins will never see, of course) is strange in my opinion. Anyway, just curious what people's input was or what they thought. Even sharing your already tuned ignition maps in the comments may be handy, as there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of talk about it here.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...5f8f06e801.png
Haltech Elite 1500 S6 FD Base Ignition Angle

the stock timing is -5 Before TDC on the leading at idle

Interesting! I did not know this. Do you have an opinion on any of the rest of the map? I feel like it looks slightly aggressive.

That base map will be fine for some driving around.
I would not go into boost until you can get it sorted out and tuned.
Also, good time to setup the engine protections i.e.... over boost cut, RPM limiter. Min oil pressure and such

Steve

It's extremely conservative in boost, and totally fine in vacuum, maybe moving past what I would run after 7k at atmo depending on the rotors - but since you're running a stock FD as you mentioned it'll be fine. I wouldn't have a problem using it as a base.

I was agonna make a ‘never go full tard’ quip, but then thought you might go off on me again with the barbed comment accusation :suspect:
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You done?

edit: must of been a forum bug, see subsequent reply below.

I must be give that my reply might have been blocked or removed, or a forum bug keeping it from showing whether logged in or not.

try not to be so serious, it was only intended relative to the boost timing curve. It’s certainly not advanced, hence the oblique relativity of the comment.

Some people may not realize it can go too far in the other direction and be just as dangerous if pushed too hard. Somebody mentioned not to push it, but didn’t get into why that might be.

Explaining things to new tuners helps guide their understanding, just as a reply might be provocatively framed to invoke further discussion.
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Agreed on not enough timing in boost can also be very bad. You need to advance the timing quite a bit in boost. Below 7500rpm and above 8.7psi

First, remember to use a timing light to check if the ECU's timing numbers match what is actually happening at the crank (eccentric) pulley. If your map shows 10 degrees but the coils are actually firing at 15 degrees, that needs to be addressed before running the engine hard. That's assumed knowledge for some people, but I think it's worth pointing out. Check all four coils, I might not go as far as adding marks to the pulley but you definitely want to confirm that the trailing coils are firing after the leadings, and none of the coils are cross-triggering or wired wrong or configured wrong in software.

In case it hasn't been mentioned, the negative numbers in boost are cells you are very unlikely to see with stock twins. As far as I've heard, the stock engine with stock twins isn't capable of making 14psi at 1500 RPM, and probably not likely to see 17psi at 2500 RPM either. I've run similar ignition timing numbers on my RX7 which has a stock engine and twin turbos, and it's been running well for 10+ years. I agree they are pretty conservative, but my car didn't seem gain significant power on a dyno when adding a few degrees so I left the map at the conservative numbers. I would try the same exercise on your car, don't increase the timing unless you have a dyno to confirm the engine wants more timing.

haltech base maps are way too retarded, they will start causing preignition around 10psi. overly retarded timing does not necessarily mean "safe" on a rotary, the trailing plug can preignite the next chamber if retarded past TDC in the higher rev ranges

here is the map ive been running for years at up to 400hp, 20psi. its basically a powerfc base map, which is supposed to be very close to oem, but smoothed out a bit

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...71b36d77c2.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...5c2651c59c.jpg

Thanks for the input guys, I think this is sparking some good discussion. Yes I will definitely be checking with a timing light. gxl90rx7, did you run that map on a relatively stock FD and was it dyno tuned? Or just translated from PFC?

no i am not a professional tuner so use at your own risk. mostly translated from powerfc with a few modifications. ive run this on my fd and several friends cars with a range of mods, stock to half bridge, has been bulletproof reliable

For what it's worth, people have been running a version of my "conservative" map, which is sort of a massaged PFC base map in and of itself, for a long time. I'm not a fan of running fixed timing advance as rpms increase (i.e., timing retards with boost yet stops advancing at 5000rpm or whatever). It's too... distributor-ish, which is based on the limitations of antique ignition systems, not what engines actually need at high rpm.

https://www.rx7club.com/rtek-forum-1...g-maps-885556/

Example of an old 12A (I think) distributor centrifugal advance curve from an old service manual:

https://www.rx7club.com/attachments/...or_advance.jpg

Thanks for this, I'll have to dive into that thread after work today.