outside of the wind tunnel, are there alternative (read: verifiable) means to measuring any gains/losses?

I admit, I don't see much benefit from sealing off the bottom of the car for an entry-level race car. are there not other modifications needed before this stage? maybe my problem is i'm grouping modifications in classes. aerodynamics seems to be a bit later down the road right? ...after driver skill, engine,suspension,etc.. right?

Proper vehicle data acquisition mainly. Linear pots at each corner or put calibrated strain gauges at the low damper mounting tab.

Your correct, but in order to win, proper aero becomes a prerequisite on top of everything else.

Found the articale on wing height with respect to the under body aero.

http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/Downloads/Aerobytes-Sep07.pdf


And an article of race versus road

http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/Downloads/Aerobytes-Aug07.pdf



For info

http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/Downloads/Aerobytes-Oct07.pdf - Diffusers

http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/Downloads/Aerobytes-Aug08.pdf - Streamlining

http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/Downloads/Aerobytes-Sep08.pdf - Fencing corners of front bumper

http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/Downloads/Aerobytes-Oct08.pdf - Canards

http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/Downloads/Aerobytes-Nov08.pdf - Sealing off cooling systems ( all you haters of my aluminum block off tape can suck it)

Absolutely. There are a lot of variables....ones that don't show up using formulas on a computer. It's a complicated science. Which is why skepticism is warranted when presented with the claims of small aftermarket manufacturers who don't have access to the expensive testing required to back up their claims.

:icon_tdow seriously...stop double/triple/quadruple posting. i've seen you do this in a few threads now. it's really annoying.

learn how to EDIT your posts if you need to say something else and no one else has since posted.

don't be a smart ass. of course a rear diffuser is visible. i have one on my own car, obviously i know this. the center and front undertrays are NOT. that is what i was walking about when i said they aren't even visible, and i think it's obvious that is what i was talking about when i made that comment.

as a newbie on this forum you should know that acting like an arrogant asshole is not going to go over well with the mods and other members. clearly there are respected companies / individuals seeking to develop under body aerodynamics, and you're just making yourself look like an idiot by running your mouth and acting like a child. i'm sure the mods will have a nice little warning for you once they see how you're conducting yourself on this forum.

of course you can post wherever you want, we all can. however posting useless negative rants and insulting people while others are trying to be productive is not adding any relevant or substantial to this thread. you have now posted 4 posts in a row on this page that do not, in any way, contribute to the topic of this discussion. congrats.

grow up, and learn how to participate in this forum before you end up getting banned by a pissed off moderator.

They are very visible

The floor needs to stick out by at least an inch otherwise the flow of air will stick to the side of the car, and create drag.

Likewise the front splitter protrudes from the front of the car.

http://www.justgofaster.com/gallery/...g/rs-yello.jpg
http://www.justgofaster.com/gallery/...s-diffuser.jpg

wow those are very visible. i think i've actually seen these photos before...

i have seen front undertrays that are completely hidden (i think most available "street use" ones are hidden under the front end).

obviously the ones pictured above arent for street use. very nice though! :icon_tup:

Very Cool, looks great Jon!

Will you be adding closeout paneling between the lower doorsill and the flat floor edge to address any turbulence in that area? Or possibly a fence at the edge to capture air? Or are running a low enough ride height to not need it?

Will you be adding fences at the rear diffuser to possibly aid in keeping the airflow attached?

I could be wrong, but i think Jon is manufacturing sideskirts to go between the edge of the flat floor and the door sill. I think the rear diffuser is pretty is pretty much the finished article- and dont under estimate the amount of work that has gone into the car to run it this way! The fuel tank is relocated to where the rear seats are normally to allow the exhaust to run out of the centre above the rear diffuser.
Unfortuantly there isnt a good picture of the front undertray/splitter- hopefully Jon will see this and put one up- its a 3D piece made completely out of CF that is strong enough to stand on/ jack the car up from. Its a really impressive bit of kit.

More information on the yellow-rs please.

Ahhh.... I get it now why you were saying that ceramic coating the exhaust and adding thermal control material on the tranny tunnel would help. Makes sense given the design of yours. I was expecting it to be right up against the existing underbody/floorboards.

Hmm.. Interesting topic.

I'm not much of a racer, but I have had some interaction with guys who worked for nascar. I went to this seminar for Labview (more for medical research) and ended up sitting next to guys who test radiator flow for nascar car team.. Pretty much they set up air flow meter to test air flow entering and leaving the radiators. They also test this on oil coolers and such. They would datalog at various speed and real world track testing.

I think if someone is really serious about all this down force and such, you really need to datalog like that company I met. My logic has been that there is always benefit and disadvantage to what you do. Finding the right balance is sometimes hard to achieve and sometimes only beneficial to specific purpose. For that reason, you should have a purpose in mind first before you attempt on time consuming and expensive project.

The key to air flow with rads and intercoolers is air in.....air out!

So many people concentrate on getting the air in with the aftermarket bumpers but then allow the air to damn up within the engine bay by not venting out of the bonnet.

There aren't as many data logging options for testing aero effects. But be sure we are going to test where possible :-)

what info do you want on our car....? I will be doing a full report on the car once finished. Then time for the next 2 versions including a wide body version :-)

Underbody of the Scoot FD:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2548/...9c7ced029b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2660/...82f2b2ac45.jpg

nice! never seen these pictures. so what is the center exhaust pipe coming out of the rear diffuser? that is an exhaust pipe right? isn't this car non-turbo? (i thought it might be for a wastegate at first...) the exhaust pipes are the 4 coming though the bumper right (2 on each side)?

hmmmm......

Koseki-san told me once he had 5 exhaust pipes. He told me why too, but i forgot =\

The car has a flat underbody from the transmission back.

Here is something for you to think about...
 

This is a concept of a carbon fiber rear diffuser with partial differential under-tray.
Don't mind the cut rear bumper cover.

Anyone interested?

That's "Tapped Racing's" car:

http://www.tappedracing.com/black_rx7.html

And I believe it is based-upon Damien's diffuser which is sold by JKL Racing:

http://shop.jklre.com/products/fd3s-pro-s-rear-diffuser

:-) neil

thread on the 914club page about integrating brush as an aerodynamic aid. Im the author...
http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.ph...ic=116763&st=0

Looks like Scoot is rocking the Toyo R1Rs on their 4 rotor :icon_tup:

underbody
 

note the start of the tunnel is fairly far forward. Also note how the MAZDA allowed a much better design, VS the 962. The rotary's narrow profile is super beneficial in underbody airflow

I've ran them for just over a year on my FD, best I've had yet :icon_tup:

I love the scoot under tray, just because it fits perfectly and doesn't look out of place on a road car.

I think that pipe in the center of the diffuser is muffler bypass. Kinda what you see on the some of the modern ferraris.

Similar thread about Miatas here for anyone who is interested:

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=354656

Great Efforts put into these cars!!

Anything new on this atomic? I would love to see more pictures of the diffuser/underbody!