Front mount or stock mount
 

well iv been thinking and i just want to know why you people went with a stock or front mount. im not sure what i want, for a stock mount i was thinking the Cool Charge 3 but i like that the front mount also give a little more room in the engine bay, they both seem great.

Track = stock mount
highway pulls = front mount is ok
stop and go traffic = stock mount as well

thewird

V-mount of i you can afford it. I have a Front mount and its fine with some ducting.

I´ve not driven different setups.
But when I look at temperatures and power on my car, I can recommend anyone to go V-Mount!:icon_tup: :icon_tup: :icon_tup: :icon_tup: :icon_tup: :icon_tup: :icon_tup: :icon_tup: :icon_tup: :icon_tup: :icon_tup:

I like v-mount best too.

:werd:

V-mount is obviously the better choice but it is also more expensive.

thewird

I love the look of a FMIC, however for a street car a SMIC works just fine. The main thing with a SMIC is to make sure you have ducting.

I went stock mount for these resons:

1) engine bay runs cooler than a FMIC
2) Quiker spool due to shorter pipes
3) Modified engine stealth (for cops and thieves)
4) Didn't feel like forking out $$$ for a V-mount. I may one day just not today.

v/stock mount!!!

I ended up getting the PFS stock mount (the small one) for a helluva good price, so that's what I'm going with.

I think it depends on what kind of boost level/turbo's you plan on running, and the application the vehicle will be used for.

I've currently got a GReddy SMIC, and will be switching to a v-mount as soon as the rest of my parts arrive from the states. A thick SMIC (with proper ducting) is great for anything under 1 bar, but I'd look at A/I or a larger core if you're planning on going much higher.

Also don't forget about heat soak... ducting in and out is critical for a smic.

If you've got the cash I'd say do it right, once, and get yourself a good v-mount with a vented hood.

When I think about it, one question comes to mind: Which is more important, a cooler intake charge or a more efficient cooling system? In the hot climate of Southern California, I definitely feel as though an efficient cooling system for a hot-running motor is very important. So, I'm running the SMIC until I can afford a v-mount :biggrin:

I had a FMIC (Greddy) on my old FD. It looked cool but I didn't like the hacking I had to do to run the pipes, the lag it added and the temperature spikes in traffic jams. So my vote goes to a SMIC for simplicity and not increasing turbo lag.

I vouch for SMIC as well. I have a M2 med. and it works great. FMIC for drag and if you track your car, or street driving, SMIC or V mount all the way. FMIC also prone for debris and rocks damaging the fins.

i want to go v mount but 2k for it and then the install looks like a pain if i can maybe if i get into some money i may go that way, but i would like to run 15-17 psi on my bnr stage 3s

15-17psi is doable with the BNR's and an SMIC. You just need to insure you have adequate ducting. Also, a little bit of A/I never hurts ;-).

I'm currently running 1.1bar (16-17psi, depending on variation) with a GReddy SMIC and *crap* ducting, the Aquamist system pretty much makes up for the ducting (or lack thereof).

I'm looking to sell my Greddy SMIC if you want it. I'm going front mount ;) contrary to everyone's beliefs.

I just need a better radiator than the stocker.

i was looking at the A/I but i just dont get it, how it works and such, iv been to the section on the fourm and looked at it on rx7store. i mean whats the diff between the $200 kit or the $1000(just throwing in random numbers).... thats really all you got out of 15-16 psi? only making 325? i would of expected a little more, Makes me wonder what i would get

IIRC Levi's dyno reads way lower than ours here in the US.

That would be a mistake. I thought you were smarter than that ;)

This is true, between 15% and 18% lower actually (iirc), which would place me at around 375-383rwhp, if/when, I roll onto a dyno after I get back to the states :) Which ain't half bad for a car with stock ports :icon_tup:

As for the science of how A/I works I'd do a little reading into the FAQ section there, and/or check www.howstuffworks.com. Basically the way it boils down though, is that:

1 - Without A/I, when you put your foot down you go faster, but your intake temps climb (the speed at which they rise depends on amount of boost, and size/efficiency of your IC).

2 - With A/I when you put your foot down you still go faster, however intake temps stay the same, or drop lower (depending on how big of a nozzle you are using, and what PSI it starts pushing at).

A) The down side is that it is not uncommon to have a loss of peak power with A/I (you ARE injecting water into the combustion chamber, typically a no-no). The exact amount of power lost can be tweaked with by changing nozzle size, when the A/I system engages, and exact percentages of mixture you are injecting (are you mixing Methanol in with your demineralized water?? If so, how much? and is the ECU tuned for this?)

B) However you are also gaining a peace of mind knowing that the mist of water is doing an excellent job of combating pre-ignition.

At the end of the day the difference in price will follow the same general rule of thumb as everything else, you get what you pay for. If you go with some cheapo system from honda's-r-us than you probably won't see as good of results as you would from a system that costs a little bit more, but has solid R&D, support, and results. Personally I'm a fan of Aquamist, they are a british company and do a damn good job (also has awesome spray pattern) imo. Parts are a bit expensive since they mark everything in pounds, however they are all top quality and don't tend to fail prematurely.

ok i seem to understand it now.. where do the nozzels go? and whats the diff between running meth or water or both?

Running water would be purely to lower intake charge temps and protect against detonation.

Running meth would be to fight against detonation by enriching the a/f.

I believe meth also helps lower intake temp as well, it atomizes quiet easily iirc.

And running both is the best of both worlds :icon_tup:

sounds like everyone should have this.. lol.. whats the cheapest one to get and i dont mean cheap in product. Ex. 500 the lowest for a pretty good one.... not like i will be getting it now.. i still need to get a dam i/c 1600cc inj kit and ignition

Well... I picked up my Aquamist 1s kit for about $500.00 here in the U.K. It was second hand and came from a friend of a friend. The unit was installed on the previous car but never used/run as the guy either ran out of money, or changed direction in his project.

I'd suggest checking out the A/I section of the forum (https://www.rx7club.com/auxiliary-injection-173/) if you want to go this direction. Like everywhere else on this site, there is a large amount of info in there which will help you make an informed decision on what you want to do with your car.

I believe the three "top" A/I systems floating around for the RX-7 right now are Aquamist (check Gotham Racing), FJO, and Devil's Own (may need to piece-meal this one together..).

About whats more important, cooler engine system ( water ) or charge temp.
I can only say this for otto-engines, they need a minimum temperature, so if you cool your watercoolingsystem to lets say 70°c, this wouldnt be good for the engine. But i dont know if you can say that for wankel engines too ( but i guess its the same ).

About fmic cooler:
I would say nobody here placed the same intercooler on the front or as vmic ( ok if its possible due to space ) and then check the temperatures.
I think the the best way would be the front place for the intercooler, but im also a little bit afraid about debris and small rocks, which could crack the IC, especially on the race track.
Another point has been said, the way from the turbo through the ic to the engine would be a way longer when the ic is placed at the front, but i would say you have to find a compromise what do you prefer.

I also had an upgraded radiator and temps during traffic jams was scary. I would shut the car down when they past 225 degrees.

IMO, it's another point of failure:

https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...postcount=2528

Keep it simple.

^ That sucks!

I'm not sure if that's an entirely fair comparison, though, since Pluto was operating *well* outside of the normal range power/psi wise. I'd be hesitant to have my car tuned that aggressively (22psi/650hp is hella aggressive!) with reliance on any singular system (but then again, I DD mine more often then not). I should think the fact that he was pushing that to begin with would be a testament to A/I's effectiveness.

And a question from the end of that post... is Gotham no more??? I knew they got the shit robbed out of them about 6 months ago, is that what put them under? If so it's an absolute shame!!

That was a 3-rotor with a very large single turbo, so not really "outside of normal power/psi range". I don't really see the correlation of AI and power to failure. All the AI system has to do is inject regardless of the power the engine is making. However, the fact is AI another system which "can" fail. IMO, the least amount of things you can count on to "keep the car safe", the better off you'll be in the long run.

Not to take this thread more OT, but yes Gotham has closed.

Good point, one I had not noticed at first (thought that power was coming from a 2-rotor :dunno: )


I just checked in on that section of the thread you quoted for a little more clarification. I'm not trying to say that I know more than you or Steve when it comes to this subject, quiet the opposite really.

I'm just not sure it's completely fair to poo-poo A/I in general because the 12A fuze blew during tuning. I can see if the pump siezed up and just stopped pumping, or the tank ran dry and had nothing to pull from, or if the nozzle got clogged and the system didn't throw out a warning. But, it looks like it was an electrical gremlin of sorts (he blew a Haltech injector fuze as well).


Granted this particular scenario is terrible, but it is one out of how many? How often do "oops, I just blew my engine" threads pop up which may have been avoided if the user had A/I? Granted water injection isn't like Gypse Tears for FI engines, but it *does* offer a level of protection you might not otherwise enjoy..

Do you see where I'm coming from?

Couple of points:

AI has it's place, no doubt. However, in most cases people are using it as a band aid rather than fixing the real problem. i.e. if their charge temps are too high, they are either:

a) pushing the turbo(s) too much and need a more effective turbo setup for their needs
b) have an ineffective intercooler setup

Adding AI to address charge temps is the wrong solution.

While it can help address pre-ignition problems as well, that once again can be and should be addressed with the fuel and ignition system. Quite frankly, for the people who build up their cars so much that they need super high octane all the time are just asking for problems.

People have been running high HP RX7 for years before AI was thought about on street cars. IMO, it's another point that can (and we have seen) fail. People remove the AST and other parts on this car because they are a failure point. It doesn't make sense to me to "add" a failure point and call it a good idea.

Good point. I agree to disagree with doing anything to this car to cover over a weak spot in the system, as opposed to correcting the system. I'm not approaching A/I from that angle (I'm afraid I may have misrepresented myself).

True, I always thought of RX-7's as kind of like a see-saw: On one end you have reliability, on the other end you have power. When ones goes up dramatically, the other end goes down, and vice versa. I'm convinced that there is a way around this, though I doubt it is either cheap, nor easy.

i went front mount but routed the pipes with very few bends and very short piping, its also not an overly inflated core, just the right size for my needs. Also i didnt have to move my radiator. I did on the other hand have to cut out a cross bar, but it isnt majorly structural. So i think in my case i made a good compromise between both.

I dont like a front mounts proximity to road debris. While i dont think any major damage can easily come from it, bent fins do look a bit tacky.

The stock look is appealing with a SMIC, but i prefer having as many things out of the engine bay as possible. because i end up working on the car ALOT.

I dont have any problems with my fluidyne radiator keeping the temps under control in this TX heat.

I didnt want to fabricate a duct for a SMIC, though i'm certain i could have, at the time i was in a hurry and it was another hassle

SMIC are worthless without a duct.

I am running the greddy fmic 2row without temp issues. Even sitting in traffic for a bit it does not get even close to too hot. My car stays sub 95C sitting in traffic on a hot 100deg oklahoma day. I did duct mine well allowing the radiator to recieve air from through the ic, as well as fresh air from the front of the car. It really was not hard to do. I completely agree that really either setup done correctly and completely will yeild good results.

I ran an M2 Large (which PFS and Pettit both copied btw) for many years with various iterations of BNRs and was pretty damn happy, made great power with it as the you can see from my old dyno link in my sig.

With the 500R I have a Blitz FMIC and love it.....easy install, looks great, coolant temps are nice and low. It sits further back than the Greddy, so allows more air to get into the engine bay and the rad.

Was there a reason for you to switch from the large SMIC to the Blitz FMIC?

thewird

I agree whole-heartedly and am a little dissapointed with the GReddy SMIC because the "duct" included with the kit is laughable at best.

If I had known more about the car, and foreseen where I would eventually go with mine, when I bought her (and the smic) I would have probably gone ahead and purchased a kit with better ducting, or at lease purchased an effective duct to hook up with the GReddy unit. Now it's a bit late in the game for that one, and I already have money set aside to get a v-mount in (I'll post pics of the brit kit when it's in/getting installed).

My favorite phrase. I've regreted it everytime I forgot it. Good advice for choosing the IC too.

well im most likely going with the pettit. seems very simple to me.. i just wish i could have the room in the engine bay with a front mount tho. i mean how hard is it to take the i/c out when you work on it?

FD3S2005- The Pettit Cool Charge III is the way to go as far as stock mount. Good choice there. Most other companies that made these are now defunct, or more expensive. If you are even thinking about other modifications I would definitely recommend an aftermarket radiator as well. You can usually find a Fluidyne or Koyo on here, pretty reasonably. The stock rad is a bit small for this motor, especially modified, and prone to cracking. Also swap out your AST (air separation tank) . Same plastic as the stock rad end tanks, and prone to cracking. This will take care of your intake temps at boost and your engine cooling. You should move your battery from the engine bay to the hatch area or behind the passenger seat in the storage compartment. This will create some more room under the hood for you.

Oh, also there is a pretty decent article on water/methanol injection in January's issue of MODIFIED Magazine, if you still need a bit of clarification.

thanks for all that, the car when i bought it 4 years ago came with the aftermarket ast, about 2 years later my radiator took a dump and i ended up with a fluidyne rad which cools greatly. my water temps are pretty low in FL heat under normal driving i have 85C but lately we have been having nice cold days and nights.