FJO Injector Driver Installation
I am trying to do a clean install of the FJO driver and want to use the Banzai harness I have on hand.
So I want to see if I properly understand. On the harness the 12v Constant that I should splice to is pin 4L, the injector trigger for the rear rotor sec inj. is pin 4Z and for the front 4X http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d5...verInstall.jpg Am I missing anything else other than the need to ground the driver? FJO Manual: http://www.fjoracing.com/products/in...&%20wiring.pdf I know this is for the old version so about half the wires are removed but I cannot find the never manual which I have online. |
Its been almost a year since I did mine. The one I used was the newer model that combines the injector power leads and then has 4 trigger wires for your injectors. I am using stock pri. and 1680 sec. and have all run through the FJO. I will try to find the post that recommended doing it that way. The post stated that the FJO can tell if it is high or low impedance and adjust accordingly. It has been that way for a year with no ill effects. I ended up mounting the box inside the cab on the top back part of the power fc.
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Here is the link. https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ght=fjo+driver
Crispeed recommended running low and high through the fjo. |
No offense but I can't understand how your post answers my question at all.
I have read those threads and still cannot see why I would run a saturated injector by P&H? I know that Crispeed recommended this years ago but an explanation would have been nice. |
If the box fails, all your injectors die instead of just your secondaries. FJO themselves recommend you hook it up to all 4 injectors. If you later decide you want do run low impedance on the primaries, you don't have to go back in there to rewire.
thewird |
Originally Posted by dradon03
(Post 9905206)
No offense but I can't understand how your post answers my question at all.
I have read those threads and still cannot see why I would run a saturated injector by P&H? I know that Crispeed recommended this years ago but an explanation would have been nice. |
Originally Posted by thewird
(Post 9905263)
If the box fails, all your injectors die instead of just your secondaries. FJO themselves recommend you hook it up to all 4 injectors. If you later decide you want do run low impedance on the primaries, you don't have to go back in there to rewire.
thewird http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d5...7Single056.jpg Primary Injectors have the red heat shrink Rears have the black. Power is tapped onto the 4L. http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d5...7Single055.jpg Finally it worked out pretty well except I inversed the order a little bit. I wanted to do: Orange-4X Yellow-4Z Blue-4W Green-4Y But during the process Orange and Yellow got swapped so now it is: Orange-Sec Inj Rear (#2)-4Z Yellow-Sec Inj Front(#1)-4X Blue-Pri Front (#1)-4W Green-Pri Rear (#2)-4Y Hopefully it can be a reference for anyone who wants to do this in the future and props to Banzai Racing made me feel alot better having this on the bench and cutting it up then cutting up my brand new harness:nod: |
Looks good Alex :icon_tup:
For those who want to use their existing wiring harness, here is how I hooked mine up: You bridge the box into your fuel injector wiring so that it's effectively between the wire running to the ecu connector and the wire running to the injector. *Orange wires on FJO Box------>bridged into Light Green/Red tracer wire on large yellow ecu connecter (this is the front primary injector) *Yellow wires on FJO Box------>bridged into Light Green/Black tracer wire on large yellow ecu connecter (this is the rear primary injector) *Blue wires on FJO Box------>bridged into Light Green/White tracer wire on large yellow ecu connecter (this is the front secondary injector) *Green wires on FJO Box------>bridged into Light Green/no tracer wire on large yellow ecu connecter (this is the rear secondary injector) Connect the solid colored FJO box wire to the ECU plug-side of the oem harness wire and the white/colored stripe FJO box wire to the injector-side of the oem harness wire. You can get switched power from the blue connector on the engine harness---- it's a thicker black wire with yellow tracer. Splice into this wire (so you have a Y-connection basically). For the FJO box I used the ecu ground, the threaded post on the top ecu bracket that takes the 10mm head nut. I left the resistors wired in near the injector plugs under the UIM for now until I can remove them prior to a tuning session I have Saturday. Even leaving the resistors in, my AFRs richened up by one full point to a point and a half. I'd imagine once the resistors are removed I'll have even more injector capacity freed up. Thanks to Chris Ott at www.RX7.com, he sold me the box and provided great tech support over the phone pre-install. They stock the unit and had it out to me in the mail very quickly from Texas :nod::icon_tup: |
There is a major problem with what you have pictured. The injector wires are at the other end of connector #4. You have soldered into wires A,B,C,D not W,X,Y,Z. You have cut all the ECU grounds. The alphabet goes backward on the ECU connectors
DO NOT install what you have there. On a side note it is a good thing that you didn't hack up your new engine harness :) |
Chris, the FJO box wires into the injector ground wires..... i'm not familiar with your jumper harness and have never had one in front of me, but if those wires correlate with the ones I listed above, then it's done correctly. If they don't, then it's not :)
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I know exactly where the FJO installs (considering I have installed dozens of them), I am also exceeding familiar with the pinouts for the ECU and how the injectors are controlled. The patch harness is straight through, nothing mystical about it.
Dradon does not have the FJO connected to the injectors, so it is not done correctly. As I already said in the post above the injector wires are at the other end of the #4 connector. He has cut all the ECU grounds, not the injector grounds. Look at the wire diagram. It have be a little confusing. The #4 connector is far left on the ECU and the alphabet runs backward. |
Completely correct sir don't know how I didn't notice that one, corrected the problem and am taking out the entire harness to check all of my wiring.
If I would have been cutting up the engine harness I would have seen the colors hehe. |
Good info, I'm doing mine this weekend.
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Fixed thank you everyone for the help a little uglier but at least it will work.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d5...7Single058.jpg http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d5...7Single057.jpg |
dradon03 have you installed this yet? And if so how's it working out for you?
I tried using 4L for power but it doesn't look like the FJO box is getting any or just too little power. (Car starts up just fine w/o the FJO box and patch harness but when I tired with it it never started up.) What have other people done, run a fused/relayed line or tap into an existing source on the harness? |
Originally Posted by X.ProphetEzra.X
(Post 9990252)
dradon03 have you installed this yet? And if so how's it working out for you?
I tried using 4L for power but it doesn't look like the FJO box is getting any or just too little power. (Car starts up just fine w/o the FJO box and patch harness but when I tired with it it never started up.) What have other people done, run a fused/relayed line or tap into an existing source on the harness? |
I did but first I'd rather not hack up my harness anymore than it already is, and second I'm not sure which connector you were talking about. I do see a blue one but the four main ecu connectors are yellow.
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Never saw the reply but hope this can help!
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d5...7/INJPower.jpg http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d5...verInstall.jpg |
I think the next single turbo build I do I'm going to use the ID2000's because they are high impedence and have a much more modern design. That would eliminate the need for an FJO box.
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Sorry to bump this up, but I just purchased my fuel system and it came with resistors. I was told that I should purchase the FJO Injector driver and now this is the 2nd time someone I see said they are going to use ID2000 injectors. By getting the ID2000 injectors, will this eliminate the need for resisters? Also, will these fit in aftermarket primary/secondary rails?
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If both injectors are high impedance, you don't need the fjo driver. So it depends on which fuel system you got. Did it replace only the secondary rail and injectors or both the primary and secondary.
I now run id1000 and id2000 so I removed my fjo driver as its no longer needed. thewird |
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The ID1000/ID2000 injectors are adapted versions of the newer Bosch EV14 generation of high impedence injector. The 1680's are Bosch EV1 style, an older design that requires a low impedence solenoid coil. The body and the actual valve inside are different.
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1280019973 |
I got a kit put together by A-spec which is basically a KG Parts kit. Here are pictures.
running 850/1680 injectors and it has resistors so I'm guessing that they are low imp. Would the ID injectors work with my fuel rails? Also, I notice they only have 725, 1000 and 2000cc injectors. What would I need to run? http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...4/c0a5da1a.jpg http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...4/ace38573.jpg |
Yup, those are all low impedance. The 715/2000cc combo is fine for most people and has no problems with idle. It depends on your turbo and power goals. They can be ordered for you setup, you need the purple tophats. Also, the advantage of the injector dyanics injectors is that you can input the exact and correct injector lag settings in your ecu.
thewird |
thewird, do the ID injectors install the same as older EV1 style with those rails? Do you use the little metal spacer thing to make it seal? Does anything need to be changed or is it exactly like installing the older style top feeds?
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They can be ordered in a variety of of heights and sizes. If you get the purple tophat, it is exactly like the classic Bosch EV1 injector in terms of sizing/fitment. Pretty ingenious way to supply your injector to everyone without increasing manufacturing costs of making different injectors. If you scroll to the bottom, you can see all the sizing combo's you can do... All 3 of their injectors have the same options.
http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID2000.html thewird |
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^ Great. That's the information I needed regarding fitment. I'm looking into these injectors for a friend of mine who is planning his single turbo conversion. It would be nice to keep the stock primary injectors.
A few more questions: What injector size did you set in the Datalogit and what did you use for injector overlap? Could you take a screenshot of your settings 5 if you don't mind? According to this chart https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1280069373 The injectors are rated at 2225cc @ 43.5psi base pressure. Did you use that fuel pressure? I actually use that currently on my 1680's. I know a lot of people run 40psi base but that is not common on other cars and it's hard to get flow testing and lag information at that base pressure. |
Originally Posted by thewird
(Post 10128309)
Yup, those are all low impedance. The 715/2000cc combo is fine for most people and has no problems with idle. It depends on your turbo and power goals. They can be ordered for you setup, you need the purple tophats. Also, the advantage of the injector dyanics injectors is that you can input the exact and correct injector lag settings in your ecu.
thewird I have an A-spec 500R turbo, streetported engine built by Howard Coleman that I'm putting together right now. Will have water injection running on pump gas in Cali (91 oct) As far as power goals, I would love to have around 450-475rwhp if that is a possibility on a "safe tune" Would you still suggest the two primary 725cc (http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID725.html) and two secondary 2000cc (http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID2000.html) injector setup? So as far as sizing go I would need the ID2000-60-14 models to work with my aftermarket secondary and primary fuel rails? (purple) Thanks! |
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Originally Posted by arghx
(Post 10128584)
^ Great. That's the information I needed regarding fitment. I'm looking into these injectors for a friend of mine who is planning his single turbo conversion. It would be nice to keep the stock primary injectors.
A few more questions: What injector size did you set in the Datalogit and what did you use for injector overlap? Could you take a screenshot of your settings 5 if you don't mind? According to this chart https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1280069373 The injectors are rated at 2225cc @ 43.5psi base pressure. Did you use that fuel pressure? I actually use that currently on my 1680's. I know a lot of people run 40psi base but that is not common on other cars and it's hard to get flow testing and lag information at that base pressure. 16V - 0.380 14V - 0.500 12V - 0.688 10V - 0.964 8V - 1.476 I needed to add negative lag to get the ID1000's @ 43.5 PSi to have a lean idle and it didn't cause any drivability issues at all. At 40 Psi, it might not even need any negative lag but I haven't got around to testing it. The ID725's require zero negative lag and are perfect, I'm testing both thanks to Injector Dynamics lending me both pairs. I'm going to keep the ID1000's though :D https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1280113074 thewird |
Why keep the ID1000 over the ID2000s? What do you suggest for my setup?
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Originally Posted by HardHitter
(Post 10131718)
Why keep the ID1000 over the ID2000s? What do you suggest for my setup?
thewird |
Hey man, sorry to bump this thread but I am in the middle of getting my tune down.
The car is back together and I pulled the map that the car originally had before I started tearing the car apart for the rebuild. The only thing I've changed on the car has been the injectors/fueling. I went from I believe a 550/1300 setup to an aftermarket primary/secondary fuel rails, FPR and ID725/ID2000 injectors. Would I be able to take the map that I currently have on my PFC (the one prior to tearing into the car) and just change the "settings 5" tab and load that on my PFC and the car will be tuned for those injectors? If you could help me in what I should put for the values in "Settings 5" that'd be great! |
Just use the dead time values listed on the ID site for your base fuel pressure and set the primary injector percentage to the injector difference. Doing this will get your car to start and hopefully run close enough to how it was tuned before in vacuum. But this does not mean you can boost safely. You will have to retune your car for the new injectors.
thewird |
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OK now I'm having issues with my ID injectors. I don't want to hijack this thread but maybe this info can help anyway.
I installed 725cc primaries and 2000cc secondaries and I changed my dead time values for 40psi and changed the injector sizes but the car won't stay running on its own. If I blip the throttle continually and keep it over 2k RPMs it will stay running, but even if I stop blipping the throttle and keep it above 2k it will die. It might just be the map (unfortunately the replacement wideband sensor I got isn't working so I don't know what the AFRs are) but I want to make sure I have all the other settings right, or at least close. thewird, what did you mean by "set the primary injector percentage to the injector difference"? I have not changed anything on any other settings page btw. Thanks! |
thank god for this thread, i would not want that hassle of the fjo driver, i rather spend the extra money on id2000, and hell even keeping the 550 primaries and id2000 (which i plan to do when its single time) secondaries you have a little more fuel than going 850/1680, and if you need anymore fuel than that then you can step up to the id725cc or mod the rail and used the stock 850s.. or if your pushing that much power like thewird go id1000/id2000.
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Those settings look correct, and you have just made a massive fueling change so the fuel map needs to be adjusted. I believe thewird is saying to make a broad change to the fuel map based off the percent difference between your old fuel injectors and the ID's just to get you in the ballpark. Say you were running stock 550's, and now 725's you would multiply your primary fueling by 0.76 (550/725).
Originally Posted by speedjunkie
(Post 10350243)
OK now I'm having issues with my ID injectors. I don't want to hijack this thread but maybe this info can help anyway.
I installed 725cc primaries and 2000cc secondaries and I changed my dead time values for 40psi and changed the injector sizes but the car won't stay running on its own. If I blip the throttle continually and keep it over 2k RPMs it will stay running, but even if I stop blipping the throttle and keep it above 2k it will die. It might just be the map (unfortunately the replacement wideband sensor I got isn't working so I don't know what the AFRs are) but I want to make sure I have all the other settings right, or at least close. thewird, what did you mean by "set the primary injector percentage to the injector difference"? I have not changed anything on any other settings page btw. Thanks! |
Yeah I should have mentioned that I had 1000cc primary and 1600cc secondary before, so I'm stepping down on the primaries and stepping up on the secondaries. So nothing needs to be changed in the "Injectors" and "Injector Overlap" sections of Settings 5? The only thing I had changed in "Injectors" was the sizes. And since my wideband is still not working, if it's just the map I need to change, I believe I'm dead in the water at this point.
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i am curious as i just started thinking about the injector duty, how does the PFC give you the duty cycle??
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If you were running the ID1000's before, your primary injector % would have been ~57.3%. If you went to the ID725's, then your primary injector % would go to ~79.7%. This change usually makes your primary injector fueling be close to what your tuned map was before and should be enough to drive around (in vacuum) at a minimum until you can get the car retuned. But its not always the case and you may need to make small changes to make it run alright. So try setting your injector percentages to 79.7% and see how it runs.
If your injector % was 100% with the ID1000's then you'd have to use completely different numbers altogether with the ID725's. Also, lower your injector staging to 35% and you'd want to set the secondary injector lag to zero since your inputting the real dead times on lag tables. thewird |
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Awesome, thanks!! I mirrored your settings on pri/sec transition % and sec transition ms and I changed the injector percentages to 79.7 like you said, so we'll see what happens. Would there be any reason I'd need to change the boost settings under "injector overlap"?
Thanks! I'll post up results. Here is a pic of what I'm going to try. |
Set 0.18 values to 0. You shouldn't need to touch injector overlap if I remember right. If anything try 432, it just affects how your secondary injectors come on.
thewird |
OK I made that change but it's still not staying running on it's own. My roommate suggested adjusting idle since I've changed injectors and other settings. I'm going to play around with it more tonight. Thanks for your help!
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Why not bring it to some tuner to fix it?
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Originally Posted by speedjunkie
(Post 10351033)
OK I made that change but it's still not staying running on it's own. My roommate suggested adjusting idle since I've changed injectors and other settings. I'm going to play around with it more tonight. Thanks for your help!
thewird |
Originally Posted by FD3S2005
(Post 10351088)
Why not bring it to some tuner to fix it?
Originally Posted by thewird
(Post 10351604)
Sounds like there isn't enough fuel. If it was idling fine before, there should be no reason to touch the screws at all. Post your map and I'll take a look at it.
thewird |
Zip it I believe.
thewird |
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Here is a technique I use frequently when scaling injectors. Go into your FC-Edit software. Save your current map if it's not already saved. Go to tools --> recalc base . Your fueling doesn't really change from this but the INJ screen should now be reset to read 1.00 . Add 5% fuel initially:
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1291556452 Start the engine and keep it alive by putting your foot on the gas. Make sure "auto update" is on (you have to be careful with this feature though). Highlight the entire 20x20 cell matrix and use the "+" and "-" keys to increase and decrease fuel across the board. https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1291556452 Try to slowly let out the gas pedal. Watch your wideband (you do have one right). If it gets leaner than 12.5:1 - 13:1 , add fuel using the "+" key. Get it to idle stably. Now here's the thing. When the engine is cold there is a water temp correction map that enriches the fuel. You need to keep the engine alive until it hits 80C (begin logging and watch the temps in the "monitor" window) and then you will have to adjust the fuel again because the engine is properly warmed up. Once you've made that broad % correction, you will need to adjust the Water Temp Correction in settings 2 tab for the next cold start. On another day with the engine completely cold, start the car. Enable "auto update" in the Datalogit software. The engine may have trouble idling again or may be idling excessively rich. You want to aim for between 12:1 and 13:1 during warmup (it's going to fluctuate). Go to the Water Temp correction settings and adjust the left column as the engine warms up. You will have to physically type in values. The left column affects fuel in higher vacuum areas while the right column affects fueling when you are driving around (up to about 6-7psi). Don't worry about the right column right now, at this point you should just warm the engine up in your driveway before you attempt to drive it. |
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Originally Posted by thewird
(Post 10351682)
Zip it I believe.
thewird
Originally Posted by arghx
(Post 10351735)
Try to slowly let out the gas pedal. Watch your wideband (you do have one right).
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Well I discovered last night that a the cable from the LC-1 to the gauge had become unplugged and that's why I was getting the three dashes, so I feel pretty foolish now for not checking that before haha. Anyway, I haven't started the car and used the wideband yet but I have done the free air calibration and it seems to be working normally so far. I'm still confused on the fuel map at this point though. I'm going to mess with the map some more tonight, this time with wideband, and see what happens.
Wow, I've really hijacked the shit outta this thread haha. My apologies OP. |
I recommend using a 10a inline fuse for the FJO's power wire. If you power it from the ECU's power, the 30a EGI fuse is too much.... It will fry it if shorted.
I know this from experience. Alternator plug wiring shorted popping my EGI fuse. The FJO didn't survive. |
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