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You sure your not specifying fiitment of the 5speed version? Because if this is a t56 6speed, there's no way around not cutting into the tranny body to fit the rear facing starter with the manuel tranny belhousing.
Again are you referring to a 5 speed or 6 speed? I've actually done some pre-fitting of a 6 speed t-56 out of a 2003-2004 Cadillac CTS-V (M12 version) on my fd manuel bell housing. There's alot more than a tiny bit you have to remove to clear the starter. The 5 speed box have a slim body like the turbo II and fd tranny. The 6 speed has a much wider body. I'm not trying to give you a hard time but, you have to understand that in these technicall DIY threads, you need to be clear with your explanations so others following don't get the wrong idea.
Edit: Here's one of my pics with the auto belhousing. There's a lot of bulk that needs to be removed just behind that bellhousing. I do have pics of the modded fd manuel bellhousing but, there on my other phone (that I broke unfortunately a month ago).
Yeah - it is a lot a bit not a little bit. I definitely have have done the research and everyone that has actually done it says the same thing. Depending where you are at in the Torque department the normal LS1 T56 is not a major upgrade from a FD trans unfortunately, especially used. Will start to fail at 450 torque and I am at 550WTQ and am going to have more. Doing the swap to a magnum a nice clutch and properly fabricated part to replace the PPF is not cheap at all.
Originally Posted by t-von
Again are you referring to a 5 speed or 6 speed? I've actually done some pre-fitting of a 6 speed t-56 out of a 2003-2004 Cadillac CTS-V (M12 version) on my fd manuel bell housing. There's alot more than a tiny bit you have to remove to clear the starter. The 5 speed box have a slim body like the turbo II and fd tranny. The 6 speed has a much wider body. I'm not trying to give you a hard time but, you have to understand that in these technicall DIY threads, you need to be clear with your explanations so others following don't get the wrong idea.
Edit: Here's one of my pics with the auto belhousing. There's a lot of bulk that needs to be removed just behind that bellhousing. I do have pics of the modded fd manuel bellhousing but, there on my other phone (that I broke unfortunately a month ago).
To do it right you need the Auto rear plate. To make this work with the manual rear plate you can either shave the manual rear plate or shave the T56 Magnum casting to make it work. Both are not optimal.
Going to the T56 Magnum is a good amount of money. If you try to do it on the cheap and skimp it is still going to be a pretty penny. If you are just starting to do the research on this it is more then you think. I had the funds saved up but for me it made since to do it right and wait till a rebuild is needed and use the auto rear plate. Since I cannot kill this motor, and I have tried, I have a low mileage JDM series 8 trans at liberty now getting everything possible done. Super cheap in comparison and will be under 2K for the whole thing. 3rd gear is a weak point and there is nothing that can be done about it other then lifting while shifting into 3rd. I am hoping a Tilton flow control valve will help but I will see. If you are under 500WTQ I am pretty sure you would have no problems at all with the fortified Liberty gears trans.
Yea I think that's where I settled last time, I haven't got around to calling Liberty but that's on my winter list. I'd like to throw an auto rear plate on there, but like you said, that's not happening unless the motor blows.
Originally Posted by drftinmx6
you ever look into the cd009 transmission from a nissan 350/370z? supposed to be able to hold over 1000whp, and can be had much cheaper than a t56 brand new. i believe Theorie is working with somebody on releasing a kit very soon.
That would be amazing, maybe he could chime in on that
Depending where you are at in the Torque department the normal LS1 T56 is not a major upgrade from a FD trans unfortunately, especially used. Will start to fail at 450 torque and I am at 550WTQ and am going to have more. Doing the swap to a magnum a nice clutch and properly fabricated part to replace the PPF is not cheap at all.
In terms of stock T56 trannys, it all depends on the which T56 your trying to use. The M12 version I have internally is the same as the t56 found in a 2003-2004 Pontiac GTO. They have tripple cone syncros! IronMdx here on the forum has the Pontiac version behind his 20b. His engine made well over 700+ rwhp and we'll above 500lbs. Reliability wise, he claims it's been perfect. I bought the CTS-V version because I can position the shifter where I want it since my 20b is moved back. I don't forsee any problems once I boost mine.
I'm using a t56 with a manual bell housing in my fd. Stock starter location, and yes you have to shave some of the tranny area. but it works, and works well.
I'm putting a 20b in now and it will go on that motor as well. And be able to push the motor back further.
The mods look very familiar to what I did. I however, I may end up using the fc bellhousing because I don't want to cut anymore metal to fit the fd rear facing slave cylinder.
I just got a email from www.dellowconversions.com.au they offer some really nice bellhousing conversions for muscle cars etc. but they have always done a 13b to Toyota and few others. well they are now doing one for 13b to the tko600. I eventually want to run the TKO600 modified from liberty.
green brother's ran a faceplated tko500 behind there 800+hp 323 wagon
so I have just ordered a liberty faceplated TKO600.i will be using the Green Brother's steel bell housing and a hydraulic release bearing and there extended shifter to retain interior centre console. it will be going into a fc3s with a 13bre and a 9180 shooting for 500-600hp. will be good fun
For those thinking about going with a T56 or t56 Magnum (which shares no internal components with the pre '08 style trans) here are some thoughts.
The F-body style '93-02 T56 was designed in 1991 and is therefore a 25 year old product. The LT1 and LS1 style box share the same internals. The only difference is the input shaft (length), front bearing plate, and bellhousing. They shift like a dump truck; however can hold big power. Even rebuild they still don't shift silky smooth. Used non rebuilt T56's with bellhousings sell for around $1000-1300 if you are lucky enough to find one. I would suggest buying a rebuilt one since these all need refreshening given the age. I recently sold a rebuilt one with about 10K miles for $1700... and it sold instantly. The bellhousing since you guys won't use it can easily sell for $175-200.
* also note that parts for this transmission go in/out of production.... meaning at times it can be 6 months-1 year when a part is on back order. Many replacement parts are made in Taiwan now as a result.
The T56 Magnum is a clean slate design rated at 700ft/lbs in a 4500lb car launching on slicks without failure. It is not only stout, but it does shift very very smoothly. It has been compared to an S2000 transmission by a few of my customers... if you pair it with a McLeod twin disc (RST for road race under 800hp and RXT for drag racing....serious abuse) they have extremely light pedal pressure and non grabby engagement. If you get the TUET11009 version it has great gearing/spacing from 1-4 gear (2.66 1st) paired with a .80 5th and .63 6th making this effectively a close ratio 5 speed with a good overdrive.
I road race my LS7 car (600hp+) and while I rarely use 5th on the track.... when I do... I certainly notice it is better than the .75 gear offered in the other version.
I have another car making about 1400hp (flywheel.... 88mm turbo 6.2 LS) and I'm running a 100% stock T56 Magnum. Total street car driven anywhere and has run 9.35@163mph launching with zero boost driven to/from the track.... not even power shifting. This spring I will test with launching on some boost and hope to run an 8 second pass. I have more power left on the table using boost by gear. It has gone 197 mph in the 1/2 mile making it the fastest 2wd front engine car on the West Coast routinetly shifted at 7800rpm.... even in 4th going to 5th! The only faster 2wd car is a Porsche with a $35K sequential gear box.
For those of you that find a '10+ Camaro TR6060 please be advised that the gearing in them is not great, the bellhousing is not removable as it is incorporated into the front bearing plate, the shifter is harder to modify to make work, the driveshaft needs to be built as a CV style front yoke which is much more expensive. My recommendation is to stay away from these.
That being said... for those of you with the budget... the T56 Magnum is a killer piece and easily available and ready to ship. The shifter that comes with it is easily modified to move further back. If you prefer to pay me to do this I charge $150. Sikky and McLeod also make shifters to set it further back $500/$300. IMO the factory shifter is just as good as both of these offerings. If you need to truly watch your finances... look for a used rebuilt one...
Please email me for pricing and more info on the T56 Magnum. I used to offer rebuilt T56's; however the core supply has really dried up and I no longer do this. I can be reached at my username at hotmail dot com.
The picture from top to bottom: TR6060 '10+ Camaro trans, T56 Magnum, standard T56
For those thinking about going with a T56 or t56 Magnum (which shares no internal components with the pre '08 style trans) here are some thoughts.
The F-body style '93-02 T56 was designed in 1991 and is therefore a 25 year old product. The LT1 and LS1 style box share the same internals. The only difference is the input shaft (length), front bearing plate, and bellhousing. They shift like a dump truck; however can hold big power. Even rebuild they still don't shift silky smooth. Used non rebuilt T56's with bellhousings sell for around $1000-1300 if you are lucky enough to find one. I would suggest buying a rebuilt one since these all need refreshening given the age. I recently sold a rebuilt one with about 10K miles for $1700... and it sold instantly. The bellhousing since you guys won't use it can easily sell for $175-200.
* also note that parts for this transmission go in/out of production.... meaning at times it can be 6 months-1 year when a part is on back order. Many replacement parts are made in Taiwan now as a result.
The T56 Magnum is a clean slate design rated at 700ft/lbs in a 4500lb car launching on slicks without failure. It is not only stout, but it does shift very very smoothly. It has been compared to an S2000 transmission by a few of my customers... if you pair it with a McLeod twin disc (RST for road race under 800hp and RXT for drag racing....serious abuse) they have extremely light pedal pressure and non grabby engagement. If you get the TUET11009 version it has great gearing/spacing from 1-4 gear (2.66 1st) paired with a .80 5th and .63 6th making this effectively a close ratio 5 speed with a good overdrive.
I road race my LS7 car (600hp+) and while I rarely use 5th on the track.... when I do... I certainly notice it is better than the .75 gear offered in the other version.
I have another car making about 1400hp (flywheel.... 88mm turbo 6.2 LS) and I'm running a 100% stock T56 Magnum. Total street car driven anywhere and has run 9.35@163mph launching with zero boost driven to/from the track.... not even power shifting. This spring I will test with launching on some boost and hope to run an 8 second pass. I have more power left on the table using boost by gear. It has gone 197 mph in the 1/2 mile making it the fastest 2wd front engine car on the West Coast routinetly shifted at 7800rpm.... even in 4th going to 5th! The only faster 2wd car is a Porsche with a $35K sequential gear box.
For those of you that find a '10+ Camaro TR6060 please be advised that the gearing in them is not great, the bellhousing is not removable as it is incorporated into the front bearing plate, the shifter is harder to modify to make work, the driveshaft needs to be built as a CV style front yoke which is much more expensive. My recommendation is to stay away from these.
That being said... for those of you with the budget... the T56 Magnum is a killer piece and easily available and ready to ship. The shifter that comes with it is easily modified to move further back. If you prefer to pay me to do this I charge $150. Sikky and McLeod also make shifters to set it further back $500/$300. IMO the factory shifter is just as good as both of these offerings. If you need to truly watch your finances... look for a used rebuilt one...
Please email me for pricing and more info on the T56 Magnum. I used to offer rebuilt T56's; however the core supply has really dried up and I no longer do this. I can be reached at my username at hotmail dot com.
The picture from top to bottom: TR6060 '10+ Camaro trans, T56 Magnum, standard T56
Thanks for the info I've started this process over the last week or so and I've been getting some parts together. I will probably go with the Sikky shifter as I've been told it'll line it up perfect in the FD, I will look into the other options you have provided.
As for the transmission I'll be going with the TUET 11012 version (2.97 - 1st gear)...I don't think the ol rotary can pull a 2.66 out of the hole quite as well as the v8 does
The T56 Magnum is a clean slate design rated at 700ft/lbs in a 4500lb car launching on slicks without failure. It is not only stout, but it does shift very very smoothly. It has been compared to an S2000 transmission by a few of my customers... if you pair it with a McLeod twin disc (RST for road race under 800hp and RXT for drag racing....serious abuse) they have extremely light pedal pressure and non grabby engagement. If you get the TUET11009 version it has great gearing/spacing from 1-4 gear (2.66 1st) paired with a .80 5th and .63 6th making this effectively a close ratio 5 speed with a good overdrive.
Running the T56 Magnum/McLeod twin disk setup on my ls1 FD.
Anyway this is my build. This is the quicktime bell housing with the rear mounted starter - a bit of grinding (and a tweak in the bell housing) but getting there.
How much grinding on the tranny? It seems like a lot needs to be gone depth wise from the pics.. How does that TR6060 compare to other T56s in size, width and material needing grinding off to fit well, right by where it needs grinding behind the starter..?
Anyway this is my build. This is the quicktime bell housing with the rear mounted starter - a bit of grinding (and a tweak in the bell housing) but getting there.
Everyone needs some jelly fish on there car makes it go faster
As for grinding, I probably over did it a bit, but wasn't as bad as you think.
I had to do a little bit of grinding in the bell housing as well.
the TR6060 is the T56 Magnum in the US. Im still a bit away from trying to fit it (need to borrow a transmission jack - I do all my work solo) but will keep you posted.
I still need to change:
The clutch plates
shifter location is about 2.5cm out from previous calc's
new drive shaft.
Havoc, please share with us the parts that you are using to make this happen. Such as the flywheel, clutch kit, slave cylinder, clutch fork, throw out bearing, etc. Thanks
If I ever do another LS swap I will run the T-56 Magnum. The standard T-56 was my least favorite thing about my last LS3 swapped FD. I even ran the Twin Disc RXT and the stock LS7 clutch, replaced clutch hydraulics, bled it to death. It still shifted like garbage. A sports car needs a proper matching trans or it ruins the experience IMO.
The standard T-56 has no business in these cars. It's a complete compromise and don't let anyone tell you any different.
If I ever do another LS swap I will run the T-56 Magnum. The standard T-56 was my least favorite thing about my last LS3 swapped FD. I even ran the Twin Disc RXT and the stock LS7 clutch, replaced clutch hydraulics, bled it to death. It still shifted like garbage. A sports car needs a proper matching trans or it ruins the experience IMO.
The standard T-56 has no business in these cars. It's a complete compromise and don't let anyone tell you any different.
Wel I'll guess I'll find out with mine. I'll be running the CTS-V tranny with the crazy linkage. I've already built a custom shifter linkage to move it forward. I'm also doing away with all the rubber isolation so it has a more direct fell. Plus I added more pressure to shifter switching mechanism to give it more of a notchy feel. Lastly I'm using a turbo 2 bellhousing so this will eliminate the inner slave cylinder and hydraulic oil from over heating. I think when it's all said and done, it should work well.
without reading this entire thread, anyone put a t56 behind a 13bt in a Fc? I'm building a pretty healthy engine right now, and don't want to break transmissions every 1000 miles if I can avoid it.
...i didn't read every page, so sorry if i missed that, but is theres a list with prices which transmission will work for that high horsepower?
At what hp number is it critical to use the oem transmission? Some time ago i read that it will take around 550-600 hp, is that true?
I think the T56 might be the most common replacement, which bell housing adapters are available and which one is the best?
I think the Supra Getrag transmission is out (although i found some bell housing adapters and bell housings) because of the ridiculous prices...
But what about the R154 Toyota transmission? I heard it will take plenty of power (at least 700 hp), is available for fair prices and there are also adapters available, like the plazmaman (around 600 usd).
How does the T56 shift compared to the OEM transmission?
What is the reliable torque limit of the stock 5 speed?
In the UK, a few of the RX-7 drag cars that run 9s and 10s use the RX-8 6 speed because it is supposed to be stronger than the FD 5 speed. I assume a FD running 9s is making between 550-650 hp depending on the weight of the car and the rest of the setup since the FD itself is already so light. Please correct me if I am wrong though.
The cars that run 8s over here are usually switched to a Lenco or similar drag racing transmission.
12-04-15, 06:12 PM
I'd like to throw an auto rear plate on there, but like you said, that's not happening unless the motor blows.
