Electric Water Pump when going for AP removal!
 

Hi FD'ers !

Last week i was ready to pull the injectors and have them sent off for cleaning / flow test. From everyone's helpful replies, after removing the UIM, there was still lots of rats nest items to remove (particularly the ACV). I decided to put everything back, (yay still makes 10-8-10 !), and thought for a bit...no longer need emissions, eh?

• Let's go with remove ACV / Air Pump.
• Looks like to remove air pump, need idler pulley for many good reasons.
  • Researching idler pulleys, i see at least 3 options: Rotary Performance, FFE, and Pineapple.
  • Of the 3 Pineapple's version allows for a 'better' space usage. Focusing on Pineapple.
    • Okay, Pineapple makes two idler pulleys. Looks like the one that allows for more space is the "BT" (Big Turbo) version.

Cool, remove the AP...need block off plates...wait what's this EWP i see? Wow, with EWP, don't need an idler pulley, and the EWP is not much more than the idler pulley! Looking into EWPs:

• Sakebomb seems to have an amazing kit, i already recently installed their IGN-1A coils, great instructions!
  • However, looks like there are 'over cooling' issues?
    • https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati.../#post12152322
    • www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhZk1yyl8Ls&t=2s
    • From above YouTube link, in addition to what comes with SakeBomb kit, if i want to use a thermostat, need to source parts to build then fit something similar to the below in engine bay:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...dacd2d6884.png

Turblown EWP (https://turbosource.com/products/tur...x-7-ewp-system)

• Their description states, "This kit is designed to use the OEM thermostat for proper warm up on street driven cars."
• A random YouTuber also mentions something about the Turblown kit using a thermostat: www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXCMTcebX4k
• Circled in Red below, is the Turblown thermostat replacement, much smaller than above pic of Sakebomb's version, and don't have to source the parts.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...6721bf81bc.png

Great, so at this point I'm leaning towards the Turblown EWP. This will allow removal of Air Pump, ACV, Water Water Pump (and other emissions items), and keep the thermostat option!
I'm searching the forum, not much has returned on the Turblown EWP. I've reached out to SakeBomb & Turblown, only heard back from SakeBomb (general questions, didn't ask about the thermostat).

Question:
I see lots of posts on SakeBomb EWP, anyone have experience or details of Turblown's method for a compact thermostat option vs. SakeBomb's ? I do see: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...blown-1105349/ But not much info in that thread.

Thanks!
Ed

btw, existing mods (from early 2000s!) are: PowerFC/Commander/DataLogit, 1300 secondaries, Supra Pump, M2 DP, N-Tech HF Cat, N1 Dual catback, Greddy FMIC/AirInx intake, Pineapple clutch, Mazdaspeed flywheel, etc.

This seems completely unnecessary for your setup. At ~$600-$700 it's also far more expensive than an idler pully.

Thanks, I suppose I would have been better off just posting a tldr:

Any info out here on the Turblown EWP w/thermostat option?

Alternatively, it was suggested elsewhere here the SakeBomb version may pair better on a street car with a lower rated pump.

If no info on either, I'll be happy to test and submit results, if anything might be an option when going EWP to keep a thermostat.

Thanks!
Ed

Honestly I wouldn't suggest an EWP unless you *need* it and your ECU is capable of running it as a fully integrated system. Your PFC is not capable of that.

If you can't drive it by the ecu then it requires an independent controller and wiring. This is an added cost and an additional point of failure. You really shouldn't *need* a mechanical thermostat if the pump is being properly controlled.

Right now you're just convincing yourself to waste money on solving a problem that you don't have.

Buy the FFE idler pulley and call it job done.


All this is coming from a guy that debated this very topic and decided to add a fully custom EWP setup with a Davies Craig pump being controlled by my ECU. Trust me, your car is still at a point where adding this in doesn't make sense and is simply adding in a potential point of failure.

I don't see a problem with overcooling, unless we are talking extreme numbers. If by overcooling they are talking 165F as opposed to 195F, I would totally do it. If you are already happy with Sakebomb, I would go with them. You could try asking them, they are great people to work with.

With all of that said, as others have mentioned, the ideal setup would be controlling efans and EWP with a stand alone ECU, one failure point, one brain. In my setup, I am not running a thermostat, the ecu has been mapped to control the efans and EWAP. Overcooling is slightly present during winter time, wish my ecu had a map based on MPH/coolant temp.

I wouldn't do it. That set up is designed for race cars, if this is a street car you will most likely run into overcooling, reliability issues, and of course the cost.

The water pump on the FD is simple for a reason - it just works.

I would strongly discourage doing the EWP. They are neat but not on a street car and not at your level of modification.

Dale

Seems like everyone already hit the main points here. There is no reason to do this, it's overcomplicated, adds another point of failure. The FFE idler pulley is a FAR better solution than an EWP.

^ Exactly. Hell, I even bought the FFE idler pully for my own build. I only decided to go all-in after buying a motec m1 ecu, converting to DBW and adding sensors to everything possible. Hell, I'm looking at dampener pots and adding a 3-zone fire suppression system. Going EWP at this point (in my build) is a no-brainer.

When you only have the basic bolt-on's it's just a waste of money.

​​​​​Yup, that's pretty much it! And of course interested if any info exists regarding the EWP w/thermostat option, besides advertising from TurboSource & that YouTube video.

I ordered FFE pulley from FFE (didn't know they had their own site, duh!), mess with that for a bit while playing/learning the EWP w/thermostat integration.

Thanks!
Ed

I would think that a mechanical thermostat really *shouldn't* be necessary if you're able to control your pump with accuracy. The whole purpose of the t-stat is to limit flow based on temperature. If your EWP control strategy is set up right then it should be able to do the exact same thing when temps are cold. No?

Agreed!

From searching the forum, there are multiple comments regarding 'overcooling' with EWP, such as the links in my first post:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati.../#post12152322
Turblown's advertising, "This kit is designed to use the OEM thermostat for proper warm up on street driven cars." : https://turbosource.com/products/tur...x-7-ewp-system

And that 6 part EWP YouTube installation guide: www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhZk1yyl8Ls&t=2s

My only 'hope' is that all above sources are a few years old, haven't found new mentions EWP results (overcooling or not) much recently, so i'll go ahead and test this for fun! =D On another note, does TurboSource exist anymore? Calling and e-mailing them get's nothing, their Facebook pages also have other customers wondering where their product is. Not likely to give their EWP kit a try this time around.

Thanks!
Ed

Unless you did it the race way, which means getting rid of the t-stat and all the rest of that factory mess, along with an alternate alternator mount and the proper ewp controller (or equivalent pwm software strategy in the ecu) then don’t even bother. The water pump cover and t-stat systems are a bit of a joke imo.

Which reminded me of the Turblown race ewp setup that never came to fruition


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...c712f2728.jpeg
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https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...deb4e6561.jpeg
.

edit: lol, didn’t read the post above before putting up these pics. Had intended to respond yesterday and got distracted.
.

That CJM piece is slick, it's too bad they never took it to production :(

My shop ended up machining something similar, but it has provisions to attach an AST/swirl-pot.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...967ff000b.jpeg
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