Double throttle removal Idea.
 

So im in the process of breaking down my UIM and getting rid of all the un needed stuff. Well in the process I began taking everything apart and IM done with everything eccept for the double throttle. So the best way i have heard is to drill and tap it for a bolt with silicone. Well as i was thinking about this I remembered that i have an extra EGT gauge and probe laying around. My idea is instead of tapping it for a bolt Im going to tap the double trottle for my EGT gauge and have the perfect intake temp reading. I dont know about you but I think this is pretty freakin brilaint lol. Just thought id share just in case anyone else wanted to make use of this hole. Ill be drilling and tapping it this weekend Ill let you know how it turns out.


Chirs

Check this out.

http://www.robrobinette.com/double_throttle.htm

Yeah ive already seen that. My idea is to instead of plugging it up using it as a place to put an intake temp sensor.

I think that's a great idea. On top of that, it would be incredible if you also had Compressor outlet temp and intercooler exit temp. I'd be really interested to see how a stock system heats, cools, and heats again as the air passes through.

I'd also be REALLY interested to see actual readings of the pressure drop through the IC and intake plumbing (with 'boost gages' in the same place as I suggested temp gages). Good idea man. :icon_tup:

You already have an intake temperature sensor shortly downstream of that in the UIM, why would you want another one in practically the same place? Also, an EGT sensor is not going to be appropriate for intake temperatures, it's designed to be accurate in a much higher temperature range. Not to mention you wouldn't be able to read a thing off of the gauge.

intercooler temp gauge. in and out

http://www.andial.com/content/930/gauges.htm

http://www.sp-power.com/catalog/inde...Path=1432_1434

And stock gages are HOW much more accurate than aftermarket gages? I give you that an EGT would be too high for a reading at that point, but I think you'd see measurable readings at comopressor outlet with one.

What ranges are most EGTs?

Measuring air temp at the turbo compressor outlet is entirely different than what you were suggesting. That number might be interesting. It would be useless to put an intake temp sensor in the double throttle hole , but moving it a little further upstream is useful to reduce heat soak effects.

The stock AIT sensor is probably similarly accurate to most aftermarket sensors, but there is no stock AIT gauge. You can read the number off of a PFC commander if you are interested in it. I'm not sure what range most EGT gauges are designed for, maybe 800-1800F?

Ok, he didn't say he was measuring outlet temp, I said that it would be a nice number to have. And the heat soaking? I assume you mean the sensor itself being heat soaked? Or do you mean the air getting soaked from going through the manifold and into the engine? In any case, I believe a reading at the DT plate would be a nice number to have. Where would you suggest you tap in that easily to get an accurate reading of the intake temperature?

The stock AIT sensor is most likely light years behind a newer sensor, being that they can mix-and-match thermocouples and come out with a far superior product than they could 2 *cough* I'm sorry, this car is 15 yrs old *cough* years ago.

And being that I'm fairly new to FD's, how does the PFC get the AIT reading, and what is the error on that system?

First off, sorry MontegoRX I was confusing you with the original poster.

By heat soaking I mean the "thermal inertia" of the UIM slows the response of the stock AIT sensor and can skew the reading a bit, so the idea is to move the sensor further up the intake piping - anywhere between the IC outlet and the throttle body is better. Chuck Westbrook has been recommending this modification for a while and has made measurements that prove its usefulness.

I am not sure of the construction of the stock AIT sensor, but I seriously doubt it's significantly less accurate than any other sensor now. Car temperature sensing technology hasn't made tremendous advances in the past 10 years or anything, there's no need for anything more accurate than what has been around. I'm also not sure what the error bands on the PFC temp sensor are, but they're perfectly fine for the purposes of a car engine.

In that case, the whole heat soaking would be why I suggested keeping the Compressor outlet measurement about 6" from the outlet. There's not a TON going on there, so that would be sufficient to keep within a 1° or so range.

As far as sensors not making leaps... you're incredibly wrong. And an ICE isn't the only place where they're involved. Trust me in the fact that alot of the technology found in new vehicles comes from facts found in Vietnam, Kosovo, etc. and it all gets updated all the time. I would be willing to place a bunch on sensors from 1993 having a MUCH larger margin of error compared to sensors from 2003-2007.

I don't disagree that sensors in general have improved a lot in the lest 10 years, I do disagree that anything more accurate than the stock AIT sensor is necessary for an RX7. Drop the attitude, I'm being perfectly reasonable with you.

That was the only part that actually had my attention. Yes, it has, and Yes, there is a need for more accurate sensors. I can't understand why anyone would claim that they DON'T want a more accurate sensor.

And i'm not trying to make you look like an ass or anything, but you DID say that, and I DID respond with my opinion of it.

This thread has gone completely off track, but I still stand by the above statement. Since that is immaterial anyway, please explain why you feel a more accurate temperature sensor is necessary. I don't see it. Especially when you're using it for gauge purposes, where the gauge cannot resolve the accuracy of the temp sensor anyway.

So i didnt mean for this to turn into an arguement I was just simply stating that with the double throttle out it is one hell of a place to put and intake air temp. As an answer to why. Well my motivation is this everyone wants to know how well the xs power intercooler works and since I have one I thought I might test to see how well it cools by placing probes before and after. Honstly you say to get a better reading put a probe farther down the intake elbow? Why would I want to do that i want to know how hot the air is when it reaches the motor what better place there right after the butterflys when its entering. An intercooler is going to cool air the differance is there efficiancy to cool it constantly.Thats like saying " well the pool has to be 84 degrees because i put 84 degree water in it. And for the record just because its and EGT gauge doesnt mean the probe will only read the readings between the gauage and for reference the EGT gauge I have reads between 600-2200. But thats not what im planning on using.

leave the stock iat in! you dont need another one. oh and heres what i did to the double throttle control :)

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/removed-welded-double-throttle-assembly-pics-571092/

-Lance