Doing my BUSHINGS (superpro)
 

Just want to make sure I am buying the right thing....

SuperPro KIT130K
this includes:

SPF2821Kx1, Control Arm Upper-Inner Kit (FRONT), OE# F131-34-480A
SPF2678Kx1, Control Arm Upper-Inner Kit (REAR), OE# FD01-28-8C0A
SPF2822Kx1, Control Arm Lower-Inner Kit (Front ), OE# FD01-34-460B
SPF2823Kx1, Control Arm Lower-Inner Kit (Rear), OE# FD01-34-470A
SPF2370x1, Steering Rack & Pinion Mount Bush.....Power Steering, OE# FD01-32-123 OE# FD01-32-124
SPF2674Kx1, Differential To Cross-member Kit , OE# FD01-28-890A
---------- this is what people refer to as "diff bushings", right?
SPF2675Kx1, Toe Control Arm - Inner Bushing,OE# FD01-28-42Y
SPF2676Kx1, Toe Control Arm - Outer Bushing, OE# FD01-26-230
SPF2677Kx1, Trailing Arm Front To Cross-Member, OE# FD15-28-50X
SPF2680Kx1, Shock Absorber Lower Bushing, OE# FD01-28-710A



Questions:

1) Anything else (short of the 6 non included pillowballs -- FD01-26-220) I should be including with this? Sway Bar end links?

2)Is it OK to do this while keeping the original shocks/springs? I will upgrade them in the future, but $$.

3)Better to get this done at a reputable (but non-rx7) suspension shop? Or an rx7 specialist?

Thanks!

1. Do the pillowballs. Yes do the end links

2. Yes you can keep the shocks and springs

3. Any reputable shop can push the bushings in. It WILL take a press.

Good for you Sir!

Your list looks all inclusive. Any shop can do it.... Or yourself if you have the space n time.

I really need to get off my lazy azz n do mine:-(

The hardest part of the job is figuring out how to orient all the components in a press. Some of them like the pillow balls only press one way and you will ruin the control arm if you do it the wrong way. A few of the bushings also require the lip to be cut off prior to pressing out. The FSM outlines all of this so as long as the shop is competent they should be able to do it.

Ideally you would want to do the shocks and springs at the same time because you will save some money on labor and won't have to align it twice, but if budget limits you it is ok to do them later.

or maybe to save some money find a place with a press. and take the parts off yourself and bring it to them.. less labor for them to pull the parts off the car

now that is a good idea. I have no press nor room for one (garage space very tight atm, roomate pulled his MR2's engine out recently)


thanks very much for the input Everyone!

For the rear you should only replace the stock pieces with poly bushings for-

the upper a-arm inner bushings (and if you do then you can replace the rear lower shock mount spherical bearing.)

Replacing any other rear "bushings" in the FD will cause suspension binding as they are all multiaxis spherical bearings stock (except the compliant front longitudinal control rod bushing).

For the other rear "bushing" positions use the Mazdacomp pieces that have a firmer rubber around the sperical bearings.

Front it is fine to replace all with poly.

I've installed about 100 sets of Super Pros/Power Flex and have experienced no binding what so ever. It is the stock rubber that causes too much compliance. Everyone has their opinion on what works best.

Because of the ease of the kit, and largely positive reviews on the forum, I am probably just going to use them all around.


Now TII, educate me some if you don't mind:

you're calling them "bushings", why?

are the superpro not direct replacements (e.g. not spherical where they should be?)

thanks!

Now TII, educate me some if you don't mind:

you're calling them "bushings", why?

The rear suspension of the FD is a multilink type of double wishbone suspension. Because of the design most of the joints go through multi axis movement as the suspension moves.

The rear toe control arms have steel spherical bearings imbedded in some rubber to dampen vibrations.

The rear lower control arm inboard side has steel spherical bearings imbedded in rubber to dampen vibrations.

The rear lower shock mount is a steel spherical bearing in rubber as well, but only because the stock rear upper arm bushings are multi axis sliding bushings for toe control. Once these are replaced with single axis bushings (poly, delrin, nylon, etc) this piece can be replaced with a busing as well.

The rear longitudinal link front bushing is just a bushing, but shaped for compliance in the direction of multi axis movement without affecting its fore/aft movement much at all. Replacing this with poly will decrease fore/aft movement a tiny bit at the expense of binding in the multi axis direction as the poly bushings are shaped incorrectly.

Mazda sells the competition "bushings" for the rubber imbedded spherical bearings that replace the rubber with one of a higher durometer for less compliance.

I usually replace the inner lower rear control arm bushing with a mazda oem one. The Super Pro kit doesn't cover that one.

BlueTII - what about the bushing in the upper rear A-arm where the shock mounts?



FWIW, I'm now running the full Mazda competition bushings and enjoying it. Less NVH but not as sharp and direct feeling as the poly. I'm old and no longer track the car so that's a welcome trade off for me. :)

BlueTII - what about the bushing in the upper rear A-arm where the shock mounts?


I called that the rear lower shock mount in my above post.

To recap, it is articulated to facilitate the sliding toe bushings in the rear upper arms inner pivots.

yeah, I see it now... Time for new eyeballs...

Do I need to have the whole mazdacomp race membership to order those spherical versions?

Before I was a MazdaComp member I bought Mazda's competition parts through vendors like Mazdatrix.

You will get better pricing if you are a MazdaComp member!

Awesome Blue, and everyone,

thanks for all the information!

I think I am actually going to do as you said and replace the noted spherical bushings with the mazdacomp ones..and not go with the entire superpro Kit. Once I have some track time I will definitely become a member!

Question that relates to this. Do you guys bother installing zerk fittings with the super pro bushings? Any problems with them squeaking etc... in the long run without re greasing?

i have the same question. i was planning on doing the zerk fittings when i do all my bushings...

[NA & NB] Zerk fittings when installing poly bushings - ClubRoadster.net

Out of curiousity, is there any ongoing maintenance associated with these bushings? Do they need to be periodically lubed or greased?

I have yet to have a set start squeaking. I always apply a liberal amount of the provided grease. Before the polyurethane bushings were available and all they had was delrin, I would drill all the control arms and install zerk fittings so the delrin bushings could be lubed periodically. Those would start to clunk like crazy every few weeks so I won't even use them anymore.

Would you happen to have any instruction on where on the control arms you installed the fittings?

Just put them along the centerline of the bushing where you will be able to get a grease gun on them while on the car. Drill right through the arm and into the bushing.

Just to clarify...you're saying the only poly bushing to be concerned with is the front of the rear trailing arms as they need to have additional axial movement? Wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything there.

Smokey, from what Blue TII said and what i've pieced together, look here:

https://www.rx7club.com/attachments/...ng-diagram-jpg


I believe he is saying that 2678 is OK to use poly, it will change the multiaxis to linear, and if u change that one it is OK to do 2680 in poly as well.

Diff bushings 2674 are OK in poly.

the toe link bushings (2675/76) and trailing arm (2677) are NOT okay, according to him, in Poly. They are the spherical ones OEM. just paid mazdatrix for MazdaComp versions :)


dono what he meant by longitudinal link, but I am guessing it is the trailing arm.

correct me please if i am wrong!

Yes, as 00SPEC said.

Regarding the binding of relatively rigid plastic bushings when replacing rubber bushings, I understand where Blue TII, an autocrosser, is coming from as I will be making suspensions modifications for SCCA Street Prepared class where spherical metal bushings can not be substituted for the OEM bushing. My main area of concern is, as pointed out by Blue TII, the connection to the chassis of the rear trailing arm. The end of that rear trailing arm that is connected to the lower lateral link moves in two arcs. The one that swings that end on a radius about the inner end of the lateral link is likely the culprit for slight binding at the chassis end of that trailing arm if the bushing there is not able to deform.
Autocrossers strive to remove all stiction and bind in their suspensions as any discontinuity(binding) in the rapid articulation of the suspension that happens in autocross shocks the tires while at their limit more than binding may affect the more gradual loading of a suspension that happens when cornering on the street or even the track.

After having recognized the above, I have also noted the experience one of our own: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...-cheap-937852/

So, has anybody when working on the rear suspension, with the shock and spring removed, tried cycling the suspension through its limits with a plastic bushing installed to gauge the amount of stiction as compared to a rubber or spherical bushing? While concerned about the binding, I would really like to eliminate the compliance of the rubber at that connection as I suspect it contributes to wheel hop when launching on R compound tires.

Cheers, Philip

What you really need to do is take apart the stock "bushings" and you will see what you need to do.

You share the common misconception that the FD "bushings" use soft rubber for multi axis compliance. They instead use steel spherical bearings for multi axis compliance with a little rubber around them to dampen NVH.

Real race car suspension with a hint of civility.

The exception I found among "bushings" requiring multi axis movement was the front of the rear trailing arm, which is a traditional bushing that uses a metal sleeve in rubber, but the rubber is shaped in such a way to be compliant in the multi axis direction and non complaint in the loaded (longitudinal) direction.

For the SCCA Street Prepared classes you are not allowed to change multi axis movement by changing the "bushing" design (ie replacing compliant material with sperical bearing OR vice versa).

For the FD this is a boon compared to other cars because once you have taken apart the stock "bushings" and determined their type you can now take your preferred high density non metal material and stick it around a spherical bearing.

In actual use, most ASP SCCA FDs could be protested as illegal as they have changed stock spherical bearings for compliant material in several areas of the rear.

Blue TII, thanks for your experience and insight. Don't think I have any misconceptions as I have studied the various type of bushings referenced in the Workshop Manual and the detailed cross sections shown in Yamaguchi's book which show the spherical bearings encased in rubber that you refer to.

The nuance of the SCCA SP rules you highlight with your "OR vice versa" comment is one that never occurred to me so I will be as you suggest disassembling the OEM bushings, if it can be done without destroying them, to see if the rubber can be replaced yet retain the original configuration. I am not aware of that being done, however I would really like to avoid any SCCA protest craziness. My main interest was to gain more negative camber in the front through an offset bushing in the top A-arm pivot points and reduce wheel tramp in the rear. Any loss in NVH is not an issue as this will be for a dedicated autocross car. Most of the bushings appear to have very little rubber in them to deflect, (Yamaguchi calls them "Sliding Rubber Bushing" and "Rubber Seated Ball-Joint Bushings"), except the front lower A-arm rear "Fluid-Filled Bushing" and the rear trailing arm front "Rubber Bushing". My car is not available to me at the moment, so my comments are just arm-chair engineering for now.

I really hope that a plastic bushing would be considered a "close enough" configuration to the "Sliding Rubber Bushing" to satisfy the SCCA rule. You really have to look hard in the Workshop manual to note the difference. Until I disassemble one, that is just speculation on my part.

I just reread your comment "...take your preferred high density non metal material and stick it around a spherical bearing." and the SCCA SP rule "Suspension bushings may be replaced with bushings of any material (except metal)..." and " In a replacement bushing the amount of metal relative to the amount of non-metallic material may not be increased." Are you suggesting an aftermarket spherical bushing could be legally used enclosed in plastic as opposed to needing to continue to use the OEM spherical bushing enclosed by plastic? I might be able to parse that wording to get that interpretation, but I fear that was not the intent.

Cheers, Philip

Are you suggesting an aftermarket spherical bushing could be legally used enclosed in plastic

*1) Yes, relevant section 15.8 C. If you take apart the stock spherical bearings I believe the bearing seats are Teflon, so be aware of this as far as adding to the total of non-metal material in the "bushing". There must be a clarification in a Fast Track as to how the amount of metal vs non-metal material in busing is measured (weight? Volume?).

I really hope that a plastic bushing would be considered a "close enough" configuration to the "Sliding Rubber Bushing" to satisfy the SCCA rule.

*2) Yes, again. As long as you use the standard procedure of having a metal sleeve that slides into the two bushing halves you have a sliding bushing. When (if) the outer flanges of the bushing material deflect from force the suspension arm will slide along the metal shaft and change toe like stock. It will take much more force with the new bushing and realistically not happen, but it meets both the intent and letter of the rule.

The nuance of the SCCA SP rules you highlight with your "OR vice versa" comment is one that never occurred to me

*2) Again no change in type of busing allowed. I don't know if anyone has ever addressed a downgrade in bushing type as is sometimes done on the FD, but technically it could be protested.

except the front lower A-arm rear "Fluid-Filled Bushing" and the rear trailing arm front "Rubber Bushing".

*3) Fluid-filled bushings are an interesting case there must be a clarification on in Fast Track as well, but I would assume they would qualify as "cylindrical bushing". The fluid is simply low density non-metallic material to dampen NVH and not serve a function in busing articulation.

Again, I doubt anyone would protest bushings in Street Prepared unless you went to full metallic spherical bearings, but it is good to know at least what you are supposed to be doing.

Section 15.8 C
"Suspension bushings may be replaced with bushings of any materials (except metal) as long as they fit in the original location. Offset busings may be used. *1) In a replacement bushing the amount of metal relative to the amount of non-metallic material may not be increased. *2) This does not authorise a change in type of bushing *3) (for example ball and socket replacing a cylindrical bushing) or use of a bushing with an angled hole whose direction differs from that of the original bushing. If the standard bushing accommodated multi-axis motion via compliance of the component material(s), the replacement bushing may not be changed to accommodate such motion via a change in bushing type, for example to a spherical bearing or similar component involving internal moving parts. Pins or keys may be used to prevent the rotation of alternate bushings but may serve no other purpose than that of retaining the bushing in the desired position. Differential mount bushings are not considered to be suspension bushings and are not covered by this allowance."

Hmm, Teflon lined, that does add another twist to working within the SCCA SP rules.

Thanks for quoting all of that part of the rules, gives the other guys a picture of what we have to deal with in Street Prepared. I think the rules were developed in another time and galaxy, even older than our cars. For example, after much discussion with Doug Gill, I put in a proposal to the SEB to allow water/methanol mix in the allowed "water injection" instead of the water only that the rules permit. They let E85 slipped in the back door of being legal by SP rules as it became a recognized pump fuel, thus SP class legal, but not water/ methanol for water injection, even washer fluid! A rotary engine expert advised me to not run the FD engine on E85 as the alcohol has access to the rubber O-rings, unless its a race engine that gets torn down frequently. Should hear on the proposal soon. Apparently it had been rejected in the past according to Doug, but with the advent of E85 and new board members it might have a chance. Hopefully, if anybody on the SEB is running E85 in SP, the personal agendas that SCCA is often accused of won't be a factor in shooting it down.

Cheers, Philip

I've go some Super Pros on my rear toe arms and whenever I go over a speed bump they make some pretty good squeaking

Since were on the subject of zerk fittings and poly bushings.......

question: is there a specific brand of zerk fitting I should be looking for? I see large qty variety packs for sale for 30-50$. Then I found the website for the company that actually invented the zerk fitting and theyre prices per fitting are considerably higher. It makes me worry that those variety packs are of a lower quality and I shouldn't bother.

I just wanted an opinion from someone else. I dont know if a zerk fitting is a zerk fitting and if something like this should even be considered.

I work for a company who manufactures pneumatic tools and we use flush type zerk fittings in our product. We've used a few different suppliers for the fitting and have never had an issue. My experience is they're all the same

Excellent, thank you. Is there a specific metal i should look for these in or does that not matter either?

While I don't have experience in using zerk fittings in suspension bushings, I haven't noticed much difference in material in my line of work. We use this type FLUSH TYPE GREASE FITTINGS, FLUSH ZERK FITTINGS, NAS516-1A, NAS516-M1

Just FYI update--


Total for the SuperPro Poly bushings : 369.something from Autohausaz.com
entire front set
differential
rear Upper A arm and shock mount



Total for the remainder Mazdaspeed bushings from Mazdatrix: 688.52

--trailing links (85.68 ea)
--Rear lower control arm inner (97 ea)
--inner toe link(121.04 ea)


still need (OEM only):
outer toe link
RLCA outer bushing (???? i think i need this? or is the RLCA bushing an entire set)


moral of the story: do some track time and get a mazdacomp membership!
getting my oil pan resealed with a banzai brace this weekend---askign the shop to inspect my bushings as well and I will go from there

I just did mine last week and I did install zerk fittings as well, can find the pics in the build thread
I bought the full super pro kit from J auto.net for $513 also got the six OEM Pillow balls from them for $425. I ended up getting the lower rear control arm outer bushings from Malloy, can't recall the price. You will want to get it. Just call Ray Crowe on that one. They weren't that expensive.

I actually did not use the bushings for the diff mount or the rear toe links. I will sell mine to you for $100 shipped if you want them.

pm'd ya!

Understand the squeaky thing, but are there any disadvantages to lubing the bushings? Especailly for a mainly tracked car?

The disadvantage would be if they weren't lubed and started binding and adding resistance to your suspension movement.



I noticed that PowerFlex now makes a bushing for the rear lower control arm whereas nobody made one in the past. Anyone see any reason to not run poly there?

I think people were suggesting not to because it might cause binding? I bought it anyways because the factory bushings were 80 bucks each side and I don't have access to Mazdacomp, so I went with the logical thing to do and paid 55 bucks for both bushings.

I don't necessarily see why the rear lower control arm would need axial movement. There is a thrust ange adjustment in the rear using that arm, but it's supposed to be zero anyway. I just wasn't sure if anyone had run the poly there yet and had some real world experience.

The rear lower arm needs multi axis movement as it is composed of a longitudinal link toward the front of the car as well as the lateral lower arm.

Therefore, in its motion it describes arcs along both the longitudinal and lateral planes - forcing the bushings to move not only along their rotational axis, but out of the plane parallel to the respective arms.

Real world analysis. Poly bushings will work. So does a twist beam rear axle or a leaf spring rear axle or a forklift with no suspension.

Just be aware that poly in these areas will be a downgrade not an upgrade to the stock suspension.