Charging A/C
 

So my car is back together, and I'm driving it!!! I'm so happy, and it's running great. I'll post another thread this weekend with some pics and some props to all the people that helped me.

My question is. . . what do I do to recharge the A/C? All the parts are back in, and I put in a new dryer along the way. Anywhere special I should go to charge it with the "old" stuff, or can I convert it easily. Is it worth converting, or should I leave it??? Any input is appreciated.

The original R12 ref cools better but is $$$$$ you can convert to r134a pretty cheap. I would go to good ac shop to get it charged.

To switch to R134, you obviously need to vacuum out the R12 and change the o rings in the compressor.

From what I learned - you want to flush and replace oil with PAG for R134
I'm in a process of converting and taking everything apart. I also replace dryer and expansion valve.

will try to make write-up on that

What kind of $$$ do you think we're looking at Busted? If it cools better, I've got the parts in place with a new dryer, don't have to change a thing. . .as long as it's not crazy expensive, I think that's the way I'm going.

I'll call around today.

O-rings in the compressor? The only compatability issues I know of are the lubricant oil you can use (134 or 12 specific) and the fittings...

o-rings should be changed with any major A/C system serivce. just like any other oring they will dry out and tend to stay flat causing possible leaks and sealing issues.

its very expensive for r12. i had a good friend of my dad service my car with a new cylinder of r12 at his a/c and appliance shop and he charged me $200 for a complete evactuation of the old stuff, and top up with the new stuff.(and thats the homie hookup, regular customers are charged between $300-600 for a full service of r12 which includes new oil orings and evacutation and refill)

but it feels oh so good!!!! idling in traffic is no problem for me in texas heat. temps at the vent are 35* on low.

also, if you want to save money by going r134a, i suggest getting tint(if you dont have it done already) or getting it darker/ slight mirrored/ charcoal or gunmetal(best of both worlds)

it helps a lot for those who have r134a

134 is not all that good because its not as cool idling in traffic and low speed conditions and you'll only see a real benefit with highway

I had the whole system apart, and have a new condenser and dryer (as mentioned above). . .I don't think there can be any old stuff left that will need to be vacuumed out. I replaced the o-rings on all the components when I put it all back together. . .but I haven't called around yet to get any prices.

I just had my AC recharged, I am still on the stock R12. I don't know if it's considered $$$$ like some of you think...the freon is $74lb and you'll need 2 lbs to fill the system. Plus labor, you are looking at around $180-$200...hardly $$$$, compare to everything else for the car. I had it done at a local Mobil gas station, paid $154.

To convert to R134, you need to change the service fittings, and also you need to replace a few O-rings. R134 has a smaller molecular structure, so will leak out of any seals meant for R12.

The question is.. Why did you have it recharged? If you had to charge - system have a leak. Next year you may have to spend another $154 for freon.

With proper retrofit (flush and R134 compatible oil) performance difference will be minimal. If you just snap on R134 retrofit service ports, evacuate and charge with R134 - it won't work well. This is what most people call "retrofit"

At least I like to beleive that as this is what AC service professionals told me.
If R134 performance will not be satisfactory - I will go back to R12. But I'm willing to try :)

I paid $200 for all tools and supplies.

As far as I know, I don't have any leaks. . .I took all the components off when I was working on it. The AC ran cold for the first year I had the car. . .until I accumulated a garage full of parts waiting to be put on the car.

$154 would be awesome!!

Don't retrofit an R12 system with R134. It is a major headache for a lot of reasons and its performance will be unsatisfactory. (I have written extensively about refrigerants in prior threads, so I'm not going to repeat it here.)

That being said, I recommend using a hydrocarbon refrigerant such as HC-12, ES-12a, etc.. These work great as a drop-in refrigerant (no changes to system are required) for R12 or R134 systems. I have retrofitted several cars with HC's and the performance is about the same as R12. It will improve the performance of any R134 system as well. It is easy, doesn't tend to leak and relatively cheap. Here is a link to one supplier (there are several, but I have had good luck with this one): http://www.es-refrigerants.com/

Here is another site with good info on HC refrigerants: http://www.hychill.com.au/

If you don't want an HC, and prefer to stay with a halogenated flourocarbon (freon), there are several HFC/HCFC blends that can do a good job for you. Some require more retrofitting work than others, but Freeze 12 is one that comes to mind that has proven to work pretty good.

Hope this helps.

before i converted to r134a i remember r12 being 80 bucks for the smallest can they make.

Damn SOL. . .I checked out those sights and that's pretty interesting stuff. So I can buy a kit to do it myself for $40 bucks. Have you used this stuff. . .is it good. Is there anything I should know before trying to do this myself??

I'm not so cheap I won't go get the R12 from a shop, but I like to learn to do as much as I can myself. . . if possible.

Just to throw something into the mix...

Mine is currently an R12 system and will need to be recharged soon. Added is that I will be upgrading to an Intercooler system that is designed around and has replacement lines for a RA134 system.

With that being said, would there be any other options for me outside of doing the conversion which is said to offer less AC cooling performance?

You should have no problem using R12 or an HC in your modified system. Just be sure the lines and components are dry and be sure there is no PAG oil in any of the new parts. If so, they will need to be flushed. You cannot mix PAO/PAG oils used in R134 systems with the mineral oil found in R12 systems; unless you want a clusterf***. If you use an HC (or R12), you can continue to use mineral oil in your system (which is preferred).


The stuff works great; I actually prefer it to R12. It takes less power drive, which makes a noticeable reduction in loading from the A/C. So, yes I've used it, and I've put it in everything including my cars, friends' & family's cars and home central AC. I have been running it for several years now, no problems. Once you use this stuff you'll never go back to flourocarbons.

Thanks for the info!

I would have no reservation going with your suggestion, I just need to find out if I can make the vmount IC kit that Im getting somehow work with the R12 lines. I know that the kit comes with new "rerouted" lines, but its specified for RA134 AC equipped cars....

You should be fine (as long as the components are dry). Normally, the difference will be upgraded o-ring, hose and dessicant materials for the R134 specification. They are backward compatabile with and can be used in R12 and HC systems.

Thanks again...

The last time I did an FD HKS FMIC installtion (6 years ago) the lines that came with it were for the RA134 and the joint fittings where different sizes, so custom lines had to be made....hope I dont have to do that again. Thanks again, I might hit pick your brain again right before I do the install.