Brand New Engine Toast
Hey all,
I'm in a situation where a engine was bought and installed by a shop, they ordered it brand new from Mazda. I broke it in for about 2000k miles and the limiter was set at 4.5k the whole time. I brought it back for the final tune. After picking it up from the tuner/ installer, I was able to drive it 45 min before it lost power. The car was on the highway doing 80 in 4th when I accelerated and at 100 it just lost power. I was around maybe 6.5k rpm? I limped it back to the installer and he tore it apart. I'm not super knowledgeable about rotary's. He is saying that the edge of the rotor hit the housing and it needs a new rotor and housing, and that the tune they did or the install had nothing to do with that. He is stating that's common of a missed shift / over rev with the Power FCs. They set the rev limiter to 7.5k, which I don't know if that matters. It has been over 1 year since they ordered the engine so I'm out of luck with Mazda. He is saying he will pay for labor, but I would have to buy the parts. Is this scenario reasonable? I'm reaching out to see if the edge of the rotor hitting the iron is indicative of that. I'm not going to say the shop, they have been accommodating, I'm really looking for knowledge If that is a common cause for a big failure like that. |
Let's see pics of the damage.
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Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
(Post 12546260)
Let's see pics of the damage.
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Sorry to hear about the motor.
Care to share what shop? |
Originally Posted by estevan62274
(Post 12546262)
Sorry to hear about the motor.
Care to share what shop? |
What modifications?
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Originally Posted by Narfle
(Post 12546265)
What modifications?
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Need more info of course but...Post pics of your setup. Also, How old is that harness? Those harnesses had problems in the past.
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Sounds like a bad tune and it sounds like the shop doesnt know what they are doing
how old was the fuel in the car? the edge of the rotor touched the housing and because of that you need a new rotor and a housing? Wtf … over revved and it is common with the pfc? these moronic excuses are a huge red flag and it sounds like you got screwed |
100% agree w R-R-Rx7
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Originally Posted by silverTRD
(Post 12546271)
Need more info of course but...Post pics of your setup. Also, How old is that harness? Those harnesses had problems in the past.
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Originally Posted by R-R-Rx7
(Post 12546272)
Sounds like a bad tune and it sounds like the shop doesnt know what they are doing
how old was the fuel in the car? the edge of the rotor touched the housing and because of that you need a new rotor and a housing? Wtf … over revved and it is common with the pfc? these moronic excuses are a huge red flag and it sounds like you got screwed I'm not super knowledgeable about rotary's and did the homework to get by most of problems I faced. Im looking to your guys knowledge on this front with the way the casualty happened. |
Originally Posted by Howard Coleman
(Post 12546273)
100% agree w R-R-Rx7
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Unless you rev'ed the engine to 10,000 rpm, rotors should not be hitting housings. This was a new engine? As in, new bearings? Did the shop verify endplay? What kind of oil were you running, and you verified the level was correct?
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Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
(Post 12546280)
Unless you rev'ed the engine to 10,000 rpm, rotors should not be hitting housings. This was a new engine? As in, new bearings? Did the shop verify endplay? What kind of oil were you running, and you verified the level was correct?
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Do you have a wideband o2 so that you can quantify how rich the car was running?
I've torn down many reman and new Mazda engines over the years for street porting and other performance work and the side seal to corner seal clearance is typically too loose, which will lead to excessive fuel dilution in the oil. |
Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
(Post 12546287)
Do you have a wideband o2 so that you can quantify how rich the car was running?
I've torn down many reman and new Mazda engines over the years for street porting and other performance work and the side seal to corner seal clearance is typically too loose, which will lead to excessive fuel dilution in the oil. |
Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
(Post 12546287)
Do you have a wideband o2 so that you can quantify how rich the car was running?
I've torn down many reman and new Mazda engines over the years for street porting and other performance work and the side seal to corner seal clearance is typically too loose, which will lead to excessive fuel dilution in the oil. thats an issue for the long run. Not blow up the engine 45 minutes later. and since this is brought up i have over revved my engine way past the 11k-12k rpm and I haven’t had this “common outcome” even with the power fc. (Glorious moneyshifts during my more active track/racing years lol). i have been lucky i am not going to deny that. i am not saying that it can’t happen but i have seen these results with a simple case a bad tune and with a slight benefit of the doubt, with old fuel in the car but the engine was broken in for 2k miles so its not that This is a classic case of detonation where the tuner is probably a piston engine tuner and possibly inexperienced with tuning of the rotary engine. I havent even seen the tune but i am willing to bet that given the information from the OP thats what it is |
Originally Posted by R-R-Rx7
(Post 12546293)
Rich
thats an issue for the long run. Not blow up the engine 45 minutes later. and since this is brought up i have over revved my engine way past the 11k-12k rpm and I haven’t had this “common outcome” even with the power fc. (Glorious moneyshifts during my more active track/racing years lol). i have been lucky i am not going to deny that. This is a classic case of detonation where the tuner is probably a piston engine tuner and possibly inexperienced with tuning of the rotary engine. I havent even seen the tune but i am willing to bet that given the information from the OP thats what it is Understandable guess given the information I provided. I can say that the shop I'm referring too only works on rotarys. Something I did not mention earlier was that the shop did not tune the car themselves, but had a remote tuner, who has a great history tuning these cars. |
The motor should be easily broken in well before a few hundred miles, let alone 2K miles. For future reference: You also don't want long periods of time cruising at a given rpm. You want to always vary the load from accelerating and declarating.
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It sounds more like you found a spot in the map that wasn't tuned right, i.e. a condition of load/rpm/boost that hadn't been encountered and addressed during whatever tuning they did, or a hickup in fuel pressure, and pop goes the weasle.
The new rotor and housing is for the damage a broken seal caused, and covering the labor intended to keep you from asking too many questions or talking about it. |
Originally Posted by Howard Coleman
(Post 12546273)
100% agree w R-R-Rx7
This ^^. Also, when you purchase a brand new shortblock from mazda they come with a 1 year / 12k miles warranty. I verified this with my account at Mazda. Not sure why the shop tore it down rather than just simply getting a replacement sent ( I understand they were on backorder forever ). If I were you I would see about a replacement under their warranty and find another shop that is rotary specific tuning. ~ GW. |
Hey all,
Thanks for the guidance on this situation. I was able to get the pics by the builder/installer. It seems valid on what I see but I would love you all to let me know what you have seen after a failure like this. Here are pics below: https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...3dcdc6910e.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...4326891424.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...b5a0721e1d.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...613b73a343.jpg |
They broke an apex seal tuning it and handed ot back to you where it came apart enough to slow you down 45 min later.
When it ran rich and sounded like a bridgeport the engine was already blown, just didnt have the collateral damage of running a blown engine yet. Proof is in the pics. |
Are those dents in the rotor face right next to the pocket?
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