Brake Ducting
 

I'm wondering what some of you are doing for brake ducting. I see that Nick at N-Tech makes a backing plate for directing air to the rotors, but @ $225 is seems a bit steep. That being said, i don't see any other options for a true duct to the rotors.

I was looking at the stuff here at Pegasus' site and thinking of just running some 3" neoprene hose using some air inlets from the R1 lip (under the oil cooler ducts).

After experiencing brake fade, for the first time, at 100 mph on the track (also my first track event), I spriug for N-tech's rotor ducting plates. I have yet to install them. I also bought some of Nick's lapping day pads.

I use the N-tech backing plates with some custom scoops with good results:

See post 44 of the following thread:

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...6&page=3&pp=15

What fluid were you using?

I really haven't experienced too much fade on track yet, but I figured that brake ducting can never hurt. :)

That looks really good. Did you make the scoops or have them made? Also is there a way to route the duct work to the rotors without the backing plates or should i just spring for them? I know that Nick does good work, but i'm on a budget here :)

It's not the fluid, it's the pads that determine fade.

Boiling fluid will make a soft pedal.

Fade is a hard pedal, but with reduced braking effectiveness.

Most street pads are designed to be quiet with low dust. They are only effective from ambient to 400°F.

Repeated stops from above 100 mph will easily exceed that temp.

Hawk HP + pads optimum operational temperature range is 100-800 degrees F

Performance Friction #97 pads are effective from 167°F and can reach 2000°F

I run the Hawks on the street & autocross events. I switch to the Performance Frictions on lapping days.

I have the 99 nose & lip with the stock brake backing plates. No additional ducting.

Depending on how hot you get your brakes & what pads your using will determine if you "need" ducts.

Actually, fluid boiling IS fade. There is pad fade where you have a firm pedal but the car just doesn't stop, and then there is fluid fade where your fluid boils and creates air bubbles in lines - making the pedal soft.

Neither is very confidence inspiring.

Section8,

Don't worry about brake ducting until you are out-driving your brake pads (i.e. track pads). And then, verify that it's a cooling problem verses a "using the brake improperly" problem.

That's probably the advice I should've followed. I was on the track with stock pads and "using the brake improperly" I thought I was Mario Andretti:)

Fluid fade??? Did you just make that up???

Got this from

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...fluid_1a.shtml


Overheated brake fluid can (and will) boil in the caliper. Boiling produces gas bubbles within any boiling fluid. Gas is compressible so boiling brake fluid leads to a “soft” brake pedal with long travel. In extreme cases overheated brake fluid necessitates “pumping the brake pedal” in order to get a pedal at all.

Yeah, you're probably right, I'm just being overly paranoid about optimizing the car I guess, and this looked like something that could be done rather inexpensively.

I was just at VIR using porterfield R4 pads on Victoracer V700s and experienced no fade. I did get some pad fade however when i toasted the front R4 pads and had to swap in my hawk HP+ spare pads.

No i didn't make it up. I don't claim to be an expert, but I've heard several people refer to what you discribe as fluid fade.

If i am wrong, i stand corrected.

They don't always lump boiling the brake fluid into "brake fade". Brake fade is typically referred to a "Pad Fade" as they usually only describe problems with the brake pad themselves.

However, boiling the brake fluid gives the same response as "pad fade" with just different circumstances, so they usually refer to that as "brake fade" off the record (not to be confused with "Pad Fade").

Either that or you are cracking rotors (BBK rotors!) after a few track weekends from overheating them :o

Crispy

I too have N-Tech ducts waiting to go on, been laying around for almost a year now. Fingers crossed they will work, but can't comment yet.

Since getting the lapping pads from Nick I haven't been on track (have to rectify that soon) I'm really hard on brakes when on track - lost Hawk pads after one lap at Spa (with a whole 180rwhp), and boiled RBF600 after a handful of laps at Knockhill which also overheated the rear tyres. My first outings on track (many years ago) were against the clock and I've never got out of the maximum attack approach to slowing down :o

Is there a reason why OEM ducts can't be purchased from a dealer?

Or you have to love it when your pads melt after a couple sessions even with no fade! ;)

yes, you need some type of backing place like Ntech sells in order to have your ducting work effectively. It's a bit tricky to make and I think you're best of just buying from Ntech than trying to do it yourself.

My front ducts were custom made by a friend and very labor intensive. I tried a few different setups first but I'm happy with my current setup.

The OEM ducts aren't the same. N-Tech's backing plates direct fresh air directly into the veins of the brake rotor.

Thanks for all the input guys. I think i'll heed the advice and hold off until i'm either killing rotors with heat or can justify $225 for the backing plates (hey, that's a track day right there almost ;p )

ducts
 

FWIW, I have a guy working on the front ducts that John Mag. had designed/fabricated for his car (I bought the templates his fabricator made!). I should have his 1st pair on Saturday. He won't be making them quite as nice/pretty as Johns, but they should be just as functional. If folks are interested, I'll start another thread and maybe see if there is interest in a group buy.
-Ken

Awesome! Glad to hear those templates are going to good use! I may even be interested in buying a back up set.

Those N tech backing plate look very functional. Can someone describe the routing of the hose, both driver and pass side?

I'd take a set if the price was right and they fit w/ the 99 spec lip

I'd like to see these as well