Bought my first FD... and I hate it
 

Alright, need some advice from some of the FD gurus on here. My FD is a half bridge ported, single turbo'd, external wastegated monster. It's loud... I mean LOUD, idles high, but makes great power at the top, however I've struggled to enjoy it. It's too loud, the power is too "peaky" for having fun in town, and I hate that I'm constantly staring at the gauges because something could be wrong.

I've been a member of this forum since 2003. I got my first RX-7 (also my first car) 18 years ago and found this forum when I had questions that the shitty Haynes manual couldn't answer. I used to think POWER was always the answer and the only goal. Now I want a fun streetable car I can take to get coffee, take for an afternoon cruise, or take out to grab dinner on Friday night and I feel like my car isn't that. My power goals are much more modest than when I was 16, 320hp is plenty and I'm seriously considering ditching the current setup and going back to a stock or mild sly treet ported, stock or 99 spec sequential twin setup. Would love to hear peoples thoughts on this. I want the FD to be the hero car I always wanted it to be and not the loud laggy beast I bought.

Cheers,

Tony

I used to auto x my FD and would never dream of going as far as a bridge port for something that I still wanted to drive on the street. The more you modify the car, the less enjoyable it is for regular driving. Every upgrade I did took something away from the intended experience. The trade off was I went faster at events. Just my opinion. Seems like your car is more purpose built for the drag strip.

"Intended experience" is the exact sentiment I've been chasing, so well said Larz! I get the high HP craze 15 years ago, but now you can buy a used Corvette for less money than a stock FD, and it will have twice the power. I wish I could find a bone stock/stockish FD to drive to compare it to. I got the car for a song so I can't complain, but I feel like I got robbed of seeing my car as the engineers intended it to be viewed in 1993.

A stock FD is a beautiful "sports" car. Unfortunately a lot of people ruin that

You could reroute the wg dumps into the downpipe and get a quieter exhaust. It's still gonna be a peaky bridgeport, though. Probably just a quieter one. If you don't like the bridge, your options are limited to rebuilds and sales/trades.

What turbo, manifold, exhaust, etc? All these things can make the car louder. If the motor is sound then look into an IWG EFR 8374 with a high quality mid pipe with a muffler in it and a Racing beat or tanabe exhaust.

I too once thought power was the answer to everything until I realized I’m not a race car driver and I’m tired of going deaf. I had the OG Greddy Ti with a straight through mp before. Ouch!

But I have the the exact setup I’m suggesting to you but I have a large street port. Very tame around town but more than I can handle when I get on it if I’m not careful.

Your not alone in how you feel about the car and changing tastes and goals. There are other similar threads but your post reminded me of this one... https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-gene...fined-1074621/


The “loud” can be pretty straightforward to deal with. Unfortunately seems like it would be hard to reverse things completely and return to a stock sequential set-up. And of course the porting.
No personal experience but thinking it might make more sense to just change to a more modest single. Or sell the car and start over. As someone experienced you’d know what to look for in a replacement.

A stock FD is fun enough honestly, but it is kind of handicapped at low RPMs I feel. If you want it to be more responsive and a little faster then the following have made me really happy while still being livable:

Full exhaust, with a free flow catalytic converter (no pre-cat)
Intake
Intercooler (I didn't upgrade, but wouldn't hurt for reliability)
Good brake pads (eg. carbotech XP8), good fluid, nice tires (eg. I'm a huge fan of the firehawks lately, but RS4s, RE-71Rs, Nitto NT-01s, etc. could also work)
Good tune
Ohlins suspension
Lightweight flywheel

That's basically it and you have a really fun car that's still livable as a daily driver. I had to put in an auto-adjusting exhaust silencer because the car came with a titanium Trust exhaust that was too loud on the street. A racing beat exhaust would probably be a better compromise.

This gives you a car that's fun all around and can still be taken to the track or autocross. You're not going to have the fastest car on the drag strip or the race track, and a modern sports SUV will probably beat you at stoplight races, but if you want that I think it's better to separate your daily driver from your race car. You'll save money and both will be better at their respective roles.

I think you aren't alone.

People get obsessed with taking their car farther and modifying things. People also get to where they lose sight of what they ACTUALLY use the car for - they think "RACECAR" and don't realize how terrible the car is to live with.

Friend of mine locally had a nice street ported engine and popped it. Decided he had to go the next step and bridge port it - you have to go for more while you are in there, right? Bridge ports either make full power or they are idling, they SUCK to drive around in traffic. Also gutting the AC wasn't a good idea.....

The good thing is you CAN go backwards. It will require some work but it is doable. The good thing is you can sell a lot of your current parts and fund the process - bridge ported motor, big turbo, etc.

IMHO this is a great way to go -

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...added-1104322/

350 hp in sequential twins. Easy to drive, lots of low end power, a cat so it doesn't stink, can be quieter with the right exhaust, but still fast and fun and will keep up with 90% of the cars out there.

Dale

If you hate the car so much then why did you buy it? Did you test drive it?

Should not be that painful to modify it down to what you want and make it quieter. Sell the large single turbo for a smaller, new downpipe that plumbs the waste gate into the exhaust. Add a resonated or midpipe with cat on it. Smaller turbo will get you a better power band and the exhaust changes should help quiet it down.

Or with the way FD market is currently, sell it and buy one with twins and bolt ons.

Sounds like you should get a OEM+ type car like my street setup. Stock sequential with PFC and mostly reliability upgrades. I have owned 4 FD3S and still own two of them now. One I'm currently daily driving 4-5 days a weeks. Any RX-7 I have ever owned has been very reliable with the minor exception of tiny issues considering how old they are. They are seemly reliable cars IMO from my experience, but then again most my cars have under 50k miles. I've never been left stranded in any of them. Depending on where you live I think the scariest concern for most FD owners is that they may overheat. I live in Texas where it gets to 90-100 degrees with lots of humidity. None of my RX-7s have failed, however recently my 1994 did have radiator fans that died. But its 26 years old can you really blame it? lol. I replaced both fans for $150 or so and I'm back golden. Having a vented hood in hotter climates for a FD3S seems like a must for me though, it really helps let all that under hood heat escape. After owning lots of *MODERN* exotics I find myself back with the FD3S smiling that its money well spent. My last exotic earlier this year was a 2018 McLaren 720s, that was a piece of shit.

Sounds to me like you got two options.

- Make changes
- Grow young again

Since the last is a bit hard, the first option also habe a few options:

- Try to detune the engine you got. It will still be pretty loud and hard to enjoy off the track. Smaller turbo, new exhaust etc.
- Sell the engine and buy a new street ported engine, and pair it with som BNR twins and some other upgrades.

I'd see if I could either sell it and find one a little less modded or start looking into how much work it will be to put the twins back in. I live in the Bay Area and there are more FDs around here than most places. I don't know one person that has gone single and been stoked. The driveabilty goes down the toilet every time.

We don't really drag race around here though. More road courses and touge type stuff where smooth power is more desirable than top end.

BNRs and a PFC will smooth things out for sure. :icon_tup:

My bridgeport is pretty descent around town. I went with a slightly smaller turbo (S363sxe) and a quiet exhaust (Tanabe Medallion Touring + resonated midpipe). I see a nice powerband from 4k to redline and I've been complimented on how quiet it is. I also went with a set of compliant coilover, which are set to full soft. It's a rather nice highway car and tame around town yet still tons of fun on back roads.

I hate to say it but most FDs are butchered and all the original magic is taken out of them when they are overmodified. Many modifications take away the amazing package Mazda delivered which makes this car so special. Twin sequential turbos are part of the character of the car. Unless it's a mainly track only car and you need monster power at full blast at all times it's ruining that lovely low turbo woosh all the time, and that awesome feeling that comes when you push the needle past 4.5k. I think a lot of single upgrades may be done due to the complexity of the twins when rebuilding/repairing. Never mind that in a 350+ hp car you'll be hard pressed to push it on the street and actually sample the glorious top end as often as a lesser powered vehicle.

Then you see cars with 19" wheels and slammed to the ground on polyurethane everything. That light, nimble, responsive feel is replaced by a solid backbreaking, rattle amplifying, skittish vehicle on the road. The last car I saw before I bought my current FD was gorgeous exterior but with so many hardcore mods on it that the owner admitted it was just not possible to enjoy on the streets anymore.

Let's not get started on body kits.... :(. I finger point at the F&F movie which turned such a beautiful, unique, stunningly engineered timeless masterpiece into a canvas for "artists" to destroy. I think it's a reason the prices are going up so quickly. Good luck finding something that retains the original look + feel these days.

I suggest selling it and buying another one closer to stock. Trying to revert & retune that car would probably cost more and take a lot of effort. Better it goes to someone who is looking for that type of setup and find the one you like.

I don't know that its worth selling the car to get where you want with it. A halfbridge really isn't too bad to live with if you have the right supporting parts to aid streatability. My semi peripheral port was an absolute pain to drive or take anywhere at first, but moving to the drive by wire throttle body allowed me to tune out ALOT of the big-port-low-rpm jerkyness and really refine the warmup, idle and all low rpm on/off throttle conditions making it behave like a much smaller port car than it really is.

The peaky powerband is likely all tied to the turbo and hot side more so that the engine. I've tuned a half bridge on a 67mm that would make 22+ PSI by 3500 rpms and pull all the way up to 9,000 without any noticeable drop off. For the exhaust, if you reroute the gates into the dump and put a quieter muffler/resonator combo on it that should go a long way towards the noise issue.

I guess it all just depends on how involved you are willing to get with it, but there's alot of options out there that can help bring your car back closer towards what you're wanting without having to scrap the engine and start over. I mean, it will never be a Maserati but you've definitely got some room to work with in-between from how it sounds like it is now.

Skeese

Adjustable Showa shocks from a Bathurst Type R (ebay $600) , 16" lightweight stock wheels ($0-600) and Bridgestone Potenza tires (from Costco). Cheap route to smooth cruising.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...7cd27f3395.jpg

I was very happy with my 95 that had JDM downpipe and Racing Beat catback only. it had more pull than stock but was a "normal" car, with A/C and a normal battery.

also, by modern standards a stock FD is a pretty rough and hardcore car, even a Touring model.

I don't think superstock is alone here... if it were me I'd sell the BP motor and big turbo then just pick up a new engine from mazda and a "smaller" EFR setup.

I have a feeling that as most owners grow and mature our lust after peak HP diminishes. I myself am going through a HUGE resto-mod build that could easily support 600whp. However, I only "want" 350whp for like 95% of my driving. I'd rather have instant response and low end torque from a 7670.

Maybe I've been corrupted by owning 1st gen miatas, I now realize you can get a LOT of enjoyment (and reliability) from a lower HP car that handles well.

My car has the mods in my signature, and that is all I wanted. Especially since I have a real racecar for the track (my avatar).

Aggressive porting, polyurethane engine/trans mounts, large-diameter wheels with short-sidewall tires, short shifters, accessory deletes, interior stripping, installing a cage - these are all ways to ruin your street car.

An FD will never be the fastest car around - technology has moved on. Any changes should be made with the intention of increasing driving enjoyment or reliability.

I understand for sure
 

So I totally understand how you feel. I bought my car in 98 when I when my early twenties. Went for hp and added a big laggy turbo, fmic, heavy wheels and full exhaust, and a 5 puck act clutch. Fast forward to when I got into my 40s and I wanted a more steerable car like when I first bought it. Feel free to check out my build from what it used to be to what it is becoming. One thing I did now that I regret is the pte 6262 single turbo with dual wastegates. If I could do it over I would have bought an 8374 BW with an internal wastegate. Once I come across some more throw away cash I will switch to that be setup. Besides that all the other changes have made my car so much more enjoyable to drive on the street. A few more changes and i.will be 100 percent happy.

Not true. When you embrace technology instead of clinging to a pfc and the old ways, a FD can very well be the fastest car around.

Single other car Ive run into on the street that could take mine was a underground racing twin turbo Audi R8 that was making 1300 on pump, the owner of it being the owner of proline motors which is local here.

Save that guy, my FD is the fastest car around which is highly attributed to the technology in the car.

Skeese