so are we gonna sticky this or what?

if i have a FC thermoswitch and a PFC, are the fan temps in the pfc settings all screwed?

I'm in the process of doing a full restoration and I am installing a complete aftermarket fan, fan control system. For those in the know, look over my wiring diagram based off of the stock wiring diagram and see if there is anything I'm missing. FYI, the A/C system has been removed.

My Custom Spal System Setup:

Fan Controller - FAN-PWM - Description: Automatic Programmable Fan Controller

This water resistant controller is programmable, and will read almost all OEM and Aftermarket sensors on the market.

-Programmable to activate at any temperature
-Factory programmed to 160° Low, 200° High
-Variable speed for reduced fan noise
-Uses OEM or optional SPAL Temp Sensor
-Waterproof extruded aluminum construction
-LED indicators for High, Low, and A/C

Secondary Fan Relay Kit - FRH

http://www.spalusa.com/fans/automate...85FH-195FH.pdf

Thermo Switch - FAN-PWM-TS
Description: Temperature Switch for FAN-PWM

-Temperature sensor for use with the SPAL FAN-PWM
-3/8-inch NPT thread
-Waterproof connector


Primary Fan - Pull Fan - 14" Straight Blade - High Performance Fan 1720 CFM - Part Number: 30102041

Previous Part Number(s): 30100248 (VA08-AP6-23MA)
Description: VA08 - AP70/LL - 23MA

http://www.spalusa.com/fans/automate.../2041-2055.pdf


Secondary Fan - Push Fan - 12" Straight Blade - Medium Profile Fan 1230 CFM - 12" Straight - Part Number: 30101505

Description: VA10 - AP50/C - 25S

http://www.spalusa.com/fans/automate.../1504-1505.pdf


Secondary Fan - Oil Cooler - PULL 5.2" Paddle Blade -Motorcycle/ATV Fan 313 CFM- Part Number: 30103011

Description: VA31 - A101 - 46A

http://www.spalusa.com/fans/automate.../3013-3011.pdf

Nice.

If your using the OEM thermostat, you need to turn up the "low" temp too over 180 or the fans will come on at 200 and never shut off.

Paul

BEST MOD EVER

Electric Water Pump

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...h_Stuff596.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...h_Stuff594.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...h_Stuff593.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...FDbuild001.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...th_Nasa069.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...th_Nasa066.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...th_Nasa071.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...FDbuild003.jpg

so i may get a flame for this or something BUT i have some issues with my coolant


Yesterday i was on a HUGE outing down to the Cape with a bunch of RX guys and i noticed that on the highway at constant speeds, between 65 and 80 my car was fine, HOWEVER, when i slow down to say 35 to 50 mph or if i come to a stop at a light, my coolant light will sometimes come on and my engine temps will jump up. After maybe 1 - 2 minutes, the light will go out and the temps will drop back into the normal operating range.

It should be noted that it doesnt happen all the time, just once in a while with no real pattern to it. I THINK its air pockets in the coolant system but after "burping" the system maybe 10 times it still happens.

So im at a loss for what it might be and im still trying to figure it all out. Does anyone have any ideas or thoughts on this?

bravo!!! Thanks for the info. This will be very helpful to all in the future!

Update to the wiring diagram I posted earlier. DO NOT connect the electrical load wire to the A/C fan switch, 0-1v vs. 12v the A/C switch would provide. The Spal Thermo sensor will require you to tap the thermo switch port hole if you place it in that location.

Rx7_Nut13B, that looks very nice. Which electric water pump is that, and how is everything working for you?

-s-

Everything is GREAT, love running the lower temps all the time, you cant even tell i have a FMIC because the temps are rock steady

I am running no T-stat and using the Power FC to control the fans, Fans come on at 185F but they really only run after setting idling for a few. They turn on for about 30-45secs and then off and the temp is back in the 180F.

I dont know if i said it, but i am running EVANS Coolant also NPG-R @ 7psi
LINK to NPG-R

The water pump is a Stwarts it is about $350 dollars http://www.stewartcomponents.net/Mer...Code=ElectPump

Photos
 

Looks like some of the photos got deleted (I had a lot of photos attached in a thread in the "Test Area 51" section). Here they are again. If any of the mods would like to edit them back into the first post, I'd appreciate it a lot.

This one belongs in section 1: Introduction
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1203660063


2: Measurements
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...9&d=1203659099


8: Coolant Flow
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...8&d=1203659099

awesome....ya da man~~

Fan switch-off temperature
 

scott, (or anyone else) - I know that this is an old thread but hopefully you or someone else will know the answers...

You say the fans turn off again at 180F. My question - What sensor input causes them to turn off? Unless there is a third coolant temperature sensor that I don’t know about, I assume the Thermosensor does this job because I believe that its resistance varies with temperature. It goes to the ECU, which I assume detects the appropriate resistance level when 180F is reached, and switches the fans off. (In comparison, I believe the Thermoswitch is just a dumb on/off switch that increases the fan speed when 226F is reached (stock), (203F with FC Thermoswitch mod.). Can anyone confirm that these assumptions are correct?

The reason for my question is that my cooling fans have suddenly decided to switch off at around 203F. I did the FC Thermoswitch mod. Approx. 18 months ago and everything was great after that. The fans came on at 203F and didn’t switch off until around 180 to 185F. So the coolant temp was always between 185 and 203F, (give or take a little), and the engine ran nice and cool. Now, all of a sudden, the fans come on at about 203F as before but seem to almost immediately switch off again and the coolant temperature rises up higher than 203F and doesn’t seem start to recover until the Thermoswitch activates at 226F and causes the fans to run at the higher speed levels. So the average running temperature is now much higher, especially on a hot day. Anyone had a similar problem?

Thanks

Dave

Dave,

It sounds like you have a good understanding of how the coolant sensor and the thermoswitch work. The stock ECU measures the voltage produced by the changing resistance of the coolant sensor and uses that to decide when to activate the cooling fans.
The one-wire thermosensor (I prefer to call it a thermoswitch) acts like a switch, it activates another relay to increase the fan speed. On cars with the cooling system recall/update, there is a little black box installed near the ECU that will turn the fans on when the thermoswitch is activated, even if that is a lower temp than the stock ECU would activate them.


Luckily I haven't had to troubleshoot my fan control system, but I would check the basics first: be sure your thermoswitch is connected, be sure the engine is grounded well since the thermoswitch uses the engine as ground, and be sure your little black box is connected and also grounded to the chassis (there should be a ring terminal near the ECU).

If you still need help figuring it out, there should be a thread about how the fan relays are activated with some more info. You might want to measure the relays and make sure they are all working properly. They live in a pretty hot part of the engine bay and aren't quite waterproof either.

-s-

How do you fill your coolant ?

I built mine, but I need to figure out how to fill it :wallbash: :lol: :wallbash:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...m/DSCN1897.jpg

amazing!

I am using the Air separator as a fill point.

Attachment 700572
Attachment 700573
Attachment 700574
Attachment 700575

When using an aftermarket temp gauge on a FD, where the best place to put the sencer if I want to retain the factory gauge?

Nice.

anyone know where to get the rubber ring that goes between the neck and the radiator cap ?
The rubber ring that in under the 2 bolts under the radiator cap?
One of the bolts are starting to rust loks like it may be the answer to my mystery missing coolant.

rosrex7:

http://www.mazdatrix.com/getprice.as...m=15-1740-N326

throttle body coolant line. search for posts from adam_c on that topic and you'll see a few discussions on various places for the sensor position

now that one says 86-88.. will it fit on an FD?

My FD has an FMIC and ever since I had Steve Kan tune it (it was pig rich) the temps have rised somewhat (due to a leaner afr).

Since then I've had my Koyo radiator modified to have the top tank extended completely across the radiator and changed the one 5 blade fan (passenger side) to a 4 blade.

WOW, what a difference. The temps now stay at 90C at a stop with the outside temps at 98F and I have no ducting at all. I'll be adding ducting (bottom, top and sides) this winter and I'm sure it will help.

I'll post again when ducting is completed.

I have a quick question about those combination AST with Thermostat housing, do they really work to remove the vapor bubbles and how do they different that the stand alone ones? Anyone have it and can chime in? Thank you very much.

I read through the entire thread, and I didn't see the answer so forgive me if I missed it. What was the max flow of the stock water pump in GPM (or some other unit of volume over time)?

Track Day Temps after 15-20 minutes...
Water: 109 *C
Air: 90 *C

Mods:
Aluminum AST
16 LBS Cap
Koyo Rad
ARC SMIC
AI Kit (currently not working...)

First session the 13 LBS cap seal failed and in the off sessions I; (a) replaced 2 of 3 coolant lines out of the AST, (b) bent the AST cap seat/flange back to a symmetrical shape, (c) replaced 13 LBS cap with 16 LBS. She was running strong the whole time. I am sure the ecu retard timing like crazy at these intake temps, but all and all it seemed OK.

I am crazy to push on track at these temps?

For next time I would very much like to repair the AI kit functionality and set up a proper V-mount I/C setup with shrouds. Any other suggestions?

I'm pretty sure that IAT's in the 80-90 range is where knock happens. I'm surprised that the ARC intercooler didn't help more. Is it ducted?

Factory duct. Do you suspect the lack of oil catch can could have been partly the cause of SMIC in-efficiency? I would like to run one, but don't want a baller/bling unit. Just a good reliable catch can. Possibly one that feeds back to the system. What do you suggest?

What is this based on? Knock sensor readings? I heard the OE knock sensor can't be trusted and that it is too sensitive. It picks up lots of not-engine-knock sounds. Is this range where people say, "I was tracking my car and then the motor gernaded" ?

I don't remember who I heard it from, but it was one of the regs. I would suspect your ducting before the cooler or lack of a catch can, the stock duct is terribad. The catch can may help though.

Why aren't you guys trying out the E&J electric waterpump?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...n/DSCN3261.jpg

As long as it is a Electric water pump it is ok in my book

I am running the Stewarts EWP

What are the battery requirements
for the ewp? I have a mini Deka with 220cca.

[QUOTE=Viking War Hammer;9600974]Why aren't you guys trying out the E&J electric waterpump?

Where did you buy it?

Is there one for the FD?

What does the impeller look like?

Sorry, lots of questions. :)

What is the expected service life for EWPs these days?

I know BMW started using electric water pumps in their cars recently.

[QUOTE=jkstill;9602549]I bought mine straight from www.eastcoastparts.com . I didn't take any pictures of the backside but I think the website has pictures. If I remember, it's all billet.

Mine is on a FD motor, you just need to use a 1988 waterpump housing.

[quote=Viking War Hammer;9602992]
Very nice piece!
How do you wire it up?

I just wired mine up to a 50amp toggle switch. Nothing fancy.

Well my EWP is a Brushless design and has a 10,000+ hour life, witch if you think about it is 416.6 days of constant running, or 1.14 years of CONSTANT running (24hr/day)

On the Meziere site (witch is probaly the maker of that pump motor for the eastcoastparts) says this (Suitable for street or drag strip use – 3000+ hour life expectancy ) and the Stewarts pump says you can run there pumps on the street as the only cooling pump.
It uses very little power compared to the brushed model.

6.5 Amp draw @ 12 Volts on Startup and 5.0 Amp draw for @ 12 Volts after start for the Brushless
11.0 - 12.0 Amp draw @ 12 Volts on Run for the Brushed motor (IE Meziere style)

Either model will work

Here is my setup

I am also running evans coolant, my temps stay below 190F ALL THE TIME, NEVER HOTTER THEN 190F EVER
I am not running a T-Stat I use the fans to keep the temp of the coolant constant after warm up.

Attachment 700576
Attachment 700577
Attachment 700578
Attachment 700579
Attachment 700580

I forgot that i have a video when i was first setting it up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O7zPLyLtx8

Very helpful info.....

lucky i haven't had thatproblem.

I was wondering if there was anymore information in regards to drilling the thermostat and how safe it is to do so?

i bought my car with single turbo conversion, the large coolant line under the oil filter feeding the heater core was plugged, and the return for the heater line was also pluged, and all the heater lines removed, does this compromise anyting?...my buddy says its best to run a loop on it? any thoughts?

its fine the way it is as long as you don't need heat.

awesome thread, thanks for all the info!
2 question:
- what are the maximum cfm that the stock fans can produce? (@rpm?)
- my fd3s used to run excellent but at present time i've noticed that every time there is load(even if i drive at 40 km/h or 140km/h, regardless of gear,) the water temp tend to rise from 89-90 to 96-99...but if i let the car role in neutral then the water temp lowers to 89 again .......so, is it a water pump failure?? or cavitation???
thanks!
(the water pump has only 1500miles on it)

Make sure the fans are working properly.

I replaced a fan motor last year when I saw it was not turning as fast as the other one.

Problem solved.

What is this based on? Knock sensor readings? I heard the OE knock sensor can't be trusted and that it is too sensitive. It picks up lots of not-engine-knock sounds. Is this range where people say, "I was tracking my car and then the motor gernaded" ?[/QUOTE]

While on the subject. I was driving my FD last weekend.. from when I started the engine to when i stopped 15-20min the IAT was aprox 25-30C. at thats at several pulls at WOT. it then was parked about 30min and the retur trip IAT was 50C... my guess is heat- soak ( or what the correct english is)... knock levels where the same.

outside air 25C, koyo rad + original fans, greddy FMIC...

When on idle with the hood up, the fans turn on at 89C water temp.Should i lower that from the power fc? also, the fans seem to run fine..
I think that Billion offers an electric fan speed selector..shall i try it or not?

All I meant was to make sure the fans are both working properly.

If one is turning slower that the other it is likely a bad motor.

Search on the forum (maybe this thread, I don't know) on how to force the fans on to high speed - it involves grounding the proper relay. I haven't done it in awhile.

You can probably figure it out from the wiring diagram.

Just one more thing to check - these car are getting old you know. :)

jkstill thanks for the reply and the info. i've search a lot and now i'll try to force the fans on to high speed or to replace them with 12'' fans with high cfm.
I'm a bit concerned about the water temp issue...cos my fd3s just completed its full restoration process.. :)

this was extremely helpful! i will definitely need to revisit this. is there a how-to on the drilling the thermostat with pics?