Bad Gas?
 

Yesterday I went and got some gas. I only filled in about 6 gallons because the pump was making some strange noises.
Then after leaving there about 5 mins later the car started to run like crap, very rough and laboured.

I was a couple miles from home and managed to nurse it back. At first it was still holding an idle fine, but as I got closer to home the engine wanted to die.

I got the car in the garage and am going to do a compression test later to make sure it's not the engine *crosses fingers*. But I guess it could be, though it seems odd since I wasn't on the gas much at all before it happened and the car is tuned very rich still. Pretty much sub 11 anywhere in boost. And boost is limited to the wastegate spring about 7 PSI.

I can get the car barely started and it seems that one of the rotors won't ignite. The AFRs are super rich, about 2 full point than prior. There's no smoke when I does run, just smell super rich.
There is also some noise that sounds like a clanking, it seems to come from the rear of the engine and I can feel it through the clutch when I engage the clutch, even in neutral. Maybe a bearing?

I think I also need to drain the tank and get some good gas in there just to make sure. How do you go about disposing of bad gas, take it to a gas station? I have no idea...

I know it sounds like I blew the engine, the symptoms are sure there, but I'm gonna stay optimistic :)
There certainly is something very wrong...

I'll post up more details as I go through the usual suspects.

PS: Yes, I checked the MAP sensor :)

yeah could be gas i spose...when running does it chug? that is a sign of bad gas as well.

Well, it doesn't look good.
One of the rear rotor faces only gets a little bounce on the compression tester.
The engine sounds really awful, kinda like someone is hitting it with a hammer on every revolution.

Oh well, live and learn. Still would like to know why it let go just out of nowhere.

Get yourself a gas can and one of those fluid hand pumps from the auto store. I emptied out my tank that way. Save it for the lawnmower or something.

Did you boost the car at all? I blew a motor from a shitty tank of Exxon '93' octane back in 2001.

Hardly, I was running of the wastegate spring, just over 7 PSI, and didn't really step on it. I doubt I hit much more than a few pounds.

It seemed to bog just when I got on the gas to make the turn onto the on-ramp and a moment later I noticed that the engine sounded very differently.

Injectors?
wow That sounds bad.

Motor might be ok then. Drain the tank, change the fuel filter, run some injector cleaner through the system.

Funny, exxon just got me 2 weeks ago with that crap. However I'm not 100% sure if it was related to the increased ethenol in the gas that all stations were rolling out or not. In any event bad gas blows engines quickly.

I got bad gas from Shell, blew two apex seals, two rotor housings, a GT35/40 and dented a rotor. I did step on it hard, but not untill about two days after I got the gas...
When Gotham pulled the motor they looked at the failure and can say with 90% certainty that it was bad gas...

My question is what did you guys do ?? Did you go to the gas station and complain, analize the fuel ? Go to court ??? Or just chalk it up to the "Rotray Experience" ???

-DC

I'm pretty paranoid about bad (lower octane than posted, etc.) gas causing detonation and a blown engine. I get Sunoco 94-octane whenever I can, just for that reason.

Dave

If your pump was making noise, I'm pretty sure it was the pump at fault. Also, when you're taking a corner while accelerating and bogged, it means that you were picking up air from the pump....
I think it ran lean and blew the engine. :(

I think he meant the actual pump used to fill up the car?

"I only filled in about 6 gallons because the pump was making some strange noises."


How much gas was in the tank when you put those 6 gallons in? If you had a fair ammount of good gas in there and only 6 gallons of shitty gas mixed in blew your engine then it must have been real shitty gas.

Yes, I meant the pump at the gas station.
I had about 1/4 of a tank when I filled up.

I'm pretty sure the fuel pump didn't pick up any air. I was pretty much barely rolling when I turned and had a half tank at that point.

The parts that have me thinking it's the engine is the one rotorface in the rear only registering half of the other two on a compression test and the noise/vibration the engine makes.
It's not a major vibration that rocks the whole car, but you can definately feel it if you touch the engine.

The noise and vibration are in unison and at very regular intervals, like every rev. At higher rpm it sounds like a massive groan, and as the revs come down it becomes more isolated knocking.
I've tried to pinpoint exactly where it comes from but no luck so far.
I thought it was behind the engine at first, but now I'm thinking it's actually in the front.

I'll keep at it for now, but I'm not holding out too much hope...

If you pump the gas out of your car and keep the receipt you can file a complaint with the company. We did it with a bad batch of diesel on our F-350, they paid for all of the repairs.

My bet is the motor just let go, but you should test the gas for your own sanity.

Motors just don't 'let go' for no reason. There's always a reason, be it poor tuning, high mileage/apex seal wear, etc.

Was your engine built recently? Based on what you said about one rotor face having 1/2 of the compression. It's sounding more like a broken or stuck side seals to me.

There're a few ways that could cause this.

1.) If ported (the porting was too big)
2.) If you have significant wear on your rotor bearing, the rotor wobbles and pinched the side seal
3.) carbon build up
4.) foreign object enter to the port and damanged the side seals.

all of which will require the engine apart for repair....

I'm leaning more towards the 2nd one since you mentioned you were hearing noises (knocking sound most likely)....


sorry to hear your problem....

It's the original engine with 48k miles on it.

I was thinking bearings due to the noise, but couldn't account for the compression issue with that. I didn't put the two together. This is starting to make sense now...

Looks like it's rebuild time. Oh, the possibilities... :)

Agreed, just implying that it might not be the gas and wear related.

As a teenager I work for a gas station and had the fuel tested frequently because folks complaining that gas blew there engine not once did the gas fail at test. Does it happen absolutely, more often then not I suspect it was for other reasons.

48k Original miles. Theres no reason for that engine should go. I'd definetly check the gas.

Where do you "Check" gas? Me and Pluto Tried and it seemed like a $600 Expense, to get "Fuel Analisys" and then I'd have to fight it with the station / gas company in court... they'd get an "Expert" that would tell them that rotary powered cars can much more easily detonate than pistons and that this was my own fault for owning one, and that the causes could be noumerous for the failure, and that nothing would be conclusive evidence, etc... etc... basically undermine me...

by the time I'd have my $$ back I'd be Grey / Bald or both and a lot poorer...

Anybody want to start a class-action lawsuit ?? :D

-DC