Apexi PFC vs Link
 

Hey guys!
need some help please.
My 7 is kinda stock but has RE Amemiya Intake, Greddy BOV FV, RE Amemiya old SMIC and HKS Hi-Power, and running stock twins, sequential of course, but Link says it does not support sequential applications. Should I go for PFC?
I don't need to tune for race or anything, I am just looking into a light tune, my current chipped REDOM ECU isn't properly tuned and for sure don't wanna send it to RE Amemiya for retuning. I really want Link :( you can do a lot to it, good for future projects.

Your suggestions please.

Thanks,

Talk to your local tuner and see what they know and use. A Power FC does you no good if you can't get it tuned, and same with the Link. If you're DIYing, the Power FC and Haltech's seem to have the most online documentation.

if you're running stock injectors, and stock turbos the PFC is very hard to beat. what it lacks in features it makes up for in accuracy.

I would go Link without hesitation provided you can get someone to tune it.

The PowerFC can plug in and run all the sequential system and you can drive the car immediately out of the box. It's very well documented and supported in the community.

For your setup that's what I would go with.

Dale

But I can't go Sequential with Link, only parallel or single turbo, at least that's what they said to me and is also mentioned on their website.

Yeah, that's what I am planning for.
I am also thinking of getting the BNR Stage 3 Seq. Turbos.

PFC for sure, the Link will not support your current set up.

The plug and play aspect of the pfc is awesome, can work well with either twins or single turbo applications

Yes, but every tuner I go to here says PFC is old and won't do me much, they suggested Link, Haltech or Adaptronic.
Haltech costs an arm and a leg.
I heard negative reviews about Adaptronic.
So I am left with Link, which will require me to convert my stock seq tt to parallel and tune it with Link, which a garage can do all of it for me.

whoever says the PFC is old and wont do you much, end the conversation there. you are wasting your time.
I am currently running a haltech but i was using the pfc for many years with great success. For a twin turbo sequential system, PFC is great ! it has its limitations sure, but it is a great choice overall

Of the options your prospective tuners said they will tune, the Haltech is the one to get for twins with sequential operation. It is 100% supported with Elite PnP units: https://support.haltech.com/portal/e...o-user-s-guide. Adaptronic can do it too, but they are no longer produced and were acquired by Haltech. These ECUs will have a lot of features not on PFC and more tuners.

I agree with others that PFC will be the easiest to get going yourself. The forum has plenty of information to help you setup PFC yourself. You end up with a well sorted map with stockish hardware. I'd probably go for the PFC if you are happy with the rest of the hardware you have and up front cost is a primary concern. You probably are happy with the parts combination as it looks like you've been on the fence for years. I wouldn't go with the PFC if you want to modify the car a lot more or if you want support from your local tuner.

My FD came with an Adaptronic Modular PnP unit with just a base map installed. It took me a considerable amount of time to tune it to start in all conditions, drive with no hiccups, compensate for electrical loads, etc like a stock car does. Getting good WOT tuning completed is easy. My setup is more modified than yours, and the newer platform has let me add inputs for fast IAT, EGT, wideband, turbo compressor speed, EMAP, fuel pressure/temp, oil pressure/temp, custom logic based on inputs, and a CAN gauge to support my needs all on a plug and play ECU. A failsafe for over boost protection has saved my motor twice now. Once during initial boost solenoid tuning and once the first time I drove it in 32F weather (needed temp based duty cycle compensation). The setup drives as nice as any PFC tuned car.

Whatever you do DON'T touch an Adaptronic - it's a dead and unsupported platform.

As far as the Link not supporting sequential, that is true for the plug & play FD versions - they don't support sequential turbos. But if you go with one of the wire-in Link units (G4X Fury and above in the product line generally) you'll have all the I/O you'll need to support sequential turbo operation. The catch is it will involve extra boost control solenoids, and a tuner who is smart enough to engineer the setup and configure the Link to control it all for you.

You have waited 5 years to upgrade the ECU? The PFC will run your car out of the box, comes preloaded with a map for intake, DP and CB. I already proved it in this thread years ago. Dyno Comparison For Each Part Added - RX7Club.com - Mazda RX7 Forum

Non-sequential twins suck.

Additionally the chips have actually been upgraded in the PFC, which is why all the part numbers changed. 414-Z004 is now 414-Z007

Some people like to look down on the PFC but it just plain works. Total easy button solution.
No, it's not the most modern standalone out there but it is probably the easiest to get up and running.

I don't disagree with this, however I'd also say that there's a ceiling that I'd like to run/have clients a PFC to and unfortunately most of the time people I come across think that once they've moved to a PFC they're in the land of giant singles and big power with regards to their electronics infrastructure. Yes it's doable, but it'll take more work and be less reliable so these folks would have been better off spending a little more money initially. In reality its the same problem with clients of mine that are still hesitant to move away from Adaptronic gear - though the reliability reasons have to do with hardware failure - not closed loop tuning strategies - so I'll reiterate more budget options CAN do the job, but it ends up taking more money in time to get there with an ultimately inferior product.

SO - if people want to build an OEM+ with relatively factory(ish) twins and induction styles the PFC is certainly a very attractive option but it's more time consuming to tune properly as compared to modern ECUs and will never be as expandable and lets face it, most people don't want to stop fiddling with/expanding their cars.

The PFC is old because it works. that being said, even though i can come up with examples of big hp cars on PFC's, its really best suited for stock turbo/stock injector setups.
Adaptronic is dead.

the Link is the price performer, but if it can't run the twins, its probably not the best choice.
Haltech is really expensive (you could get a Motec...) but people like them and they seem to work now.

The FD is not a modern car, half the stuff a "modern" ECU can do isn't even compatible with the car without a boatload more sensors/parts. The more collectible the FD becomes, the more it makes sense to install reversible mods.

Agreed. If you're chasing big HP and experimenting with associated features like WI, DBW, adding safety routines to your tuning etc, a more modern ECU like the Haltech makes sense. Especially if you are able to setup with extra safety standards and the needed sensors Banzai mentioned.

Twins - PFC is the easy button. Even for a mild single turbo kit to replace your dead twins, a PFC can work reasonably well. Especially if it means a running car that you can drive while you budget for a replacement ECU and tuning.

I'm amazed anyone still buys new PowerFC units for RX7s, considering the PowerFC will happily sit back and do nothing while the wideband shows dangerously lean numbers at full throttle. A wideband is just one additional sensor, and anyone with a standalone ECU should have one. Most 'modern' ECUs have had that feature for 10+ years now.

Other modern engine protections that work without additional sensors are internal datalog memory (to record how the engine was behaving without needing to plug in a laptop), rev limiters for too-cold or too-hot coolant temperatures, and adjusting the boost target or boost solenoid duty cycle when the air temperature is cold enough that the engine is likely to overboost.

Add $500-1000 of sensors and wiring and you can monitor oil pressure and EGT, which covers nearly everything that is likely to hurt your engine. Another $500-800 and you can add two more widebands to measure each rotor, if your exhaust manifold has provisions for the additional O2 bungs.

Unsure if anyone still buys the PFC new :) They used to be 500-800 used. Not sure what they go for now. Banzai has them for $1,200 new and it has a map that works out of the box for stock twins.

The more recent Plug and Play options from Haltech are attractive - but can be more expensive. If you're running twins, you need the 2500 ECU with plug n play harness, which is $2,500 new from Banzai. And that's before your additional $1,000 - $1,800 of extra sensors and whatever the tuning is going to cost you. If single turbo, looks like you can start with the 1500 and save $500.

Ultimately, it comes down to budget and goals. I'd love to do the Haltech or something else modern with the sensors and associated tuning but the PFC has been working fine for the last 20 years so I don't really have an urgent need to change - until my goals for the car change. I still like the twins (when they work).

On the other hand, if there wasn't a local tuner for the PFC and there was for the Haltech, then I'd be selecting the Haltech. Also a factor - whether the stock wiring harness is in good condition.

Someone enlighten me if I'm missing something here pls.

literally this! i tell my customers its like using a gaming pc to play minesweeper. the modern ecus are nice but for the vast majority who are simply enjoying their car on a sunny day, what does 2 widebands, 3 egt probes and every pressure and temp sensor available do for you at cars and coffee? talking points i guess lol.

all great points made by everyone and its refreshing to see sensible discussion instead of "it just sucks". it has its place and purpose and its a case by case situation. its by no means obsolete or useless. I'm not sure it will ever get phased out considering japan is still pretty deep in using f cons.