Apex Seals Apex Seals Apex Seals
 

Alright, so there are quite a few ways to go when rebuilding your 13-b, i'm trying to weigh out cost effectiveness vs. durability here. I plan on stay with 2mm seals unless my apex seal groves are out of spec, but I'd like to know what others have to say about the rotary aviation seals and the rotary aviation super seals.

1.)How well do RA Classic Seals and RA Super Seals stack up against OEM Steel seals?

2.) Are ceramic apex seals sold as 2mm or 3mm?

3.) How about Atkins and Hurley Seals? I see alot of rebuild shops using atkins master rebuild kits, but have searched and found that they are softer seals, as well are the hurley seals.

I am using RA Super seals in my build up, and I have heard lots of good things about the RA super seals. The classic seals are good too, and Rotary Aviation claims that both Super Seals and Classic Seals have never broken inside of an engine before.

My friend (RotorMotor2) has RA SS in his FD and he loves those things.

Stay far, far away from 2mm Hurley apex seals. I broke way too many of those back in 2001-2002. They will shatter at the slightest hint of detonation. Sure, they do zero damage to the motor, but you still have to pull the damn thing to rebuild it. No thanks :thumbd:

For my FD, I chose OEM Mazda Apex seals if that tells you anything.

yes, I agree. from my experiences, mazda shit is good shit. But for my apex seals, i chose RA Super seals. I will soon find out how they perform.

I'm using Atkins seals, because my builder insists and my tuner agrees.

I've heard good and bad about atkins seals. Some claim they are not the strongest seals but others insist they are quality products.

they are softer than OEM, but they won't scar your housings and they are almost as hard as OEM.

A lot of drag cars use Atkins seals. Of course mine will be mostly street, but this does make me feel better than the serious drag racers are running a full weekend with atkins seals.

What about rotorsport racing? What seals do they use in there master rebuild kit?

From my experience I would run OEM, vs RA. RA units can take a beating, however sealing compression, and rotor housing life seem to be low vs OEM..

Just use OEM Mazda seals....

OEM is the best!

BULLSHIT !

You guys find it cheaper to purchase all your OEM rebuild parts from Ray at Malloy or Mazdatrix.com ?


Also can you still use the old 3 pc apex seals with the new springs? Or is it necessary to buy all new seals and springs?

+1 against Hurley racing seals. In my case, 3mm with dual springs. They wore out a set of new rotor housings in 27k-miles and never had good compression (90-95 psi).

Ceramics are available as 2mm or 3mm.

Its a common problem WITH ALL CHEAPO ONE MAN BAND DEVELOPED Ferrous seals.

They are NOT durable, now matter how much wind they blow up youre arse with, "my mates done XXX km's or we have never had a problem with durability in years, starts first kick !".

Everyone I have personaly seen looked like a horses cock after quick time, & they destroy rotor housings like they are going out of fashion be warned!!! !

You either buy genuine Mazda which are actualy proven to work (only steel seal that is) or you buy a quality ceramic seal (ianetti or NRS) both of which you will find copious amounts of data on from people all over the world that verifies minimal wear on rotor housings and rotors v's Mazda OEM. Mazda could not win the 24hr LeMans race without Silicone Nitride apex seals, not much has changed since then, except that now you can buy what they wont mass produce :)

OEM 3mm...the only way to fly

I don't know if I'd go that far. 2mm seals work well for many of the best engine builders in the country :)

If you have spare money you dont want. No need for the added expense.

Agreed, 2mm is fine for my car (ported, single turbo, ect ect ect), people always think getting bigger is better...

Mazda OEM 3mm seals here.

from my understanding the only thing 3mm seals give you is a little more insurance against detonation. A good tune and 2mm seals would be just as safe as long as you do not have to worry about detonation no?

Roger that :icon_tup:

The way I look at it, we all have to worry about detonation, because shit happens.

The thing I don't like about 3 mil seals---the rotors have to be milled perfectly or you're looking at a bad motor in the near future. Also, based on speaking with some smart people, the thicker seals can chatter at higher rpms, and also wear the rotor housings more, and don't seal quite as well. Not sure if all of this is 100% quantifiable though. I've never pulled apart a 3mm motor with high mileage on it to inspect......

I dont know that much about it, so i will bow to those wiser then me. But could you explaine the 12A 3 mil then? That are stock.

I just purchased the NRS 3mm greys w/. stinger springs. They taper to 2mm on the sealing surface. Also going the JHB cermet A route. I ran RA before this rebuild in 2mm. Hurleys are recommended if your tuning on the edge, replace w/stronger seals after satisfactory tune has been realized.

What do you need explained? Seals that thick are probably overkill in an n/a motor, not sure why mazda chose do to that. If anyone knows the answer I'd love to hear it :)