How about a big cup of SHUT THE FUCK UP

Why can't all you wannabe Internet engineers stop arguing about anything and everything.

Quit winning about a stupid 100 dollar fan.

Showing your age again, Teddy? It's perfectly acceptable for people to want evidence to justify a purchase, even when it's only $100. Not everyone can afford to be a "big baller" like you. :D

Certainly.

Regardless of price, it'd be nice to have a fully justified reason to throw a set of these on during a radiator swap, just for the hell of it. Oh the other hand, it would suck if everyone blindly recommended these blades to those that didn't know better, and suddenly the stock fan motors started burning out left and right because they were operating at too-high of a load at too-low of an RPM.

I'll quit my "winning" now. :D

For me, the bottom line is, did Mazda change the motors or not?

Hey BOOST im not sure.... MY car is in the shop after my accident but the moment it comes out of the body shop I will put them to the test since my temps only go danger zone in stop and go traffic..

OK with regards to stopping the complaining back and forth.

No one ever asked for EVIDENCE on the ETB, and now im sure just about all of us have it and it works.

The problem with these blades is there isnt really anyone at how with an AIRFLOW tester to see what they pull or dont pull. We can only do it on a trail basis. Just about everyone that has purchase only replied back with the fact that they do seem to pull a lot more air. Im willing to pay the cash for some blades since they seem like they would pull more air. I can get some more evidence but it seemed pretty obvious to me that they would work. I should be able to get some harder evidence, but like mentioned above, some will buy and some wont, no one is forcing you to buy. This was something that was brought to out attention from a few customers and we did want to offer the motors too, but unfortunatly they are about $225 a pop from Mazda for 99spec OUCH.

93-98 PN for fan motors is N3A1-
99-02 PN for fan motors is N3G1-

Off my memory that does inquire a major change, but I can ask about that too, but these are very expensive. So the plan was to get some testers of FAN BLADES only and then we can get some data that way since my FD was down during this time. Unfortunatly we never recieved any hard data on fans alone.

I still see no reason blades only wont make a difference in temps. Going from a 4-5 blade to a 5-7 blade.

Hope this makes sense as im still down on drugs from the accident..

Thanks, I will just test them out myself. "Oh my God! I am modding my car without a novel of proof and other pointless bullshit as to why I should!!!" :D
I am going to pay for the set Jason. I'll let you know if my temps change after I put them in.

I feel sorry for the poor sucker who buys your car when you sell it....mr. "if it ain't broke don't fix it" in every thread....let me guess, you don't change your own oil or plugs either, right? just admit it, you're not only a "cheap bastard", you're also just plain lazy

Cool. Thanks for the info JT. :)

I figured they'd change the motors for one reason or another... doesn't mean our older motors won't work well, though. For all we know now, our older motors could be more robust. But it was worth questioning, IMHO.

I'm sorry if my first post seemed offensively inquisitive. I'm merely curious about what Mazda did to change the FD fan design.

If anyone cares, I've noticed between 5 and 7 degrees F difference in temperatures by switching to the newer fans. Not that my temps were too high to begin with, but I figured why not... I believe the fans are lighter than the 93-96 fans also. Not sure if it contributes much, but I suppose it could.

Lighter, I really don't think so. I have them and they are probably the same weight.

If his car never has trouble with coolant temps why does he need to "improve" anything?

You don't have to worry about that. I'm not selling the car...... so you are wrong about that.

Actually, I do all the work on my car. I don't want anyone else working on it because I like to make sure that things are done right ......... so you are wrong about that too.

There are a number of parts on the FD that I have replaced. Check out my sig. In addition to what is listed, I have done lots of other modifications. These mods were all to replace items that were functioning properly as Mazda intended them. Not broken, but I "fixed them" .......... you are wrong again.

Oh yeah, I built my own 1st gen race car from a shell with a blown motor. I did all the work myself, so I guess that I am not lazy either. Once again, you are wrong.

Oh, as far as my cooling system goes. It works VERY WELL. Maybe you think I should fix it anyway.

I feel sorry for anyone who takes your advice, since you seem to be wrong so frequently.

adam c----- I dont think he meant it like that or at least he shouldnt have. Although this isnt meant to fix something, since I would have to say MOST EVERYONE that is purchasing them, dont have BROKEN systems or even poor running ones, but its meant to be an upgrade. Im sure you didnt do the "FAN MOD" i see you did because your fans were broken correct? Im sure it was done as an upgrade right? So people will do as they do.... For example I dont have a FAN MOD on my FD since I dont like it, and my cooling system works fine too, so whats the reason? I think it will improve cooling though (thats why I will put mine on)

FD from R1---to each their own, its his car. Some will think its a good idea some wont. I think it would be...... but thats me..... I only put them up for offering because they look to be a good, cost effective, worthy and possibly needed upgrade.

Lets keep it to a discussion since I believe there is a no right or wrong with someone does with their own car. Its theirs to do as they will...

Anyway, quite a few sets went out monday so they should be getting there fans today, so hopefully we will get some info, or I get my FD back soon........................... Calling the bodyshop today. DAMN I hope my rear fenders turn out ok, since all I did was try to explain in words what I wanted hehe

OK I installed mine. I wont post too much on this since it was a little chilly out last night.

Ok I pushed my fd several times hard trying to get the temps up, but couldnt get my temps over 94C Normally my temps can rise up to 98C right now even with the chill.

The temps basically went from 89-94c and back and forth, seems like they work quite well, but I do want to get some traffic temps and warmer outside temps when I get back from my short vacation.

Best way to test fan performance is parked at one place, with ac on during consistent hot days. Fans will run continuously engine will have compressor load (could add headlights), and rad will see condenser heat in most cases, and a steady state temp will occur with t-stat partly open. Test should be at one fan speed .... med could be forced with fan-mod switch if fans toggle between low and medium. If new fans are better, water temp will be lower.

Other evaluations have little value, as many other variables get involved.

I'm curious to see some good data on this after you test the fans. Twinturboteddy, I saw that you have the newer fans...what have been your experiences?

Steve

Everyone seams so fixated on the belief of cooler temps with more fan blades......

In traffic, when my temps rise to the point the fans switch on. In a couple of minutes it drives the temps down to the point of the thermostat controlling the temp.

I have done the temp gage "linearize" mod. Works great, you can see the thermostat cycle open & close

Why did Mazda redesign the # of blades in the fans? Anyone consider they make LESS NOISE when the operate? Not all changes are for performance. Cost & noise are also a factor

Anybody remember this article from Jack Yamaguchui?

Here's an excerpt
"...The radiator's core depth has been increased to 27 mm (1.1 in.) from the previous one's 25 mm (1 in.). The 209 kW (280 bhp) engine had its fin-pitch changed from 1.1 mm (0.04 in.) to 1.3 mm (0.05 in.). Twin cooling fans' blades have also been increased, one from five to seven blades and the other four to five blades, while the high-speed electric motors' consumption has been changed from 160W to 120W..."

http://robrobinette.com/sae_article.htm

Right now I have two 7 blade fans.

But one of my fan motors isn't working properly. It only works sometimes. Time for a new one I guess.

But with only one radiator fan running on a 7 blade, it almost keeps it as cool as I had with two stock blade fans running.

Ok here is what I found with MY setup of the fans.

for 2 weeks now normal back and forth driving in hot and cold weather, in traffic/stop and go/no speeds aboue 10Kmph (which is about 6-7Mph) and going 240kmph on the highway for a long drive.

I CAN NOT GET MY TEMPS ABOVE 97C FOR ANYTHING!

Previously in the same traffic I have seen temps over 100C and even up to 108C before my fan switch, GRANTED! I cant say its the fans alone (coolant change at the same time) but I have no doubt what so ever that they do in fact work and I wouldnt take them off for anything.

My set-up is
TRUST front mount 3 core
Koyo Radiator ----Slightly angled approx 15%
(BOTH VERTICALLY mounted of course)

Single T04E turbo.
Big sideport/streetport engine

My temps are being read from my Power FC

I wonder if it's possible that the new fans are less of an impedence at speeds when the fans aren't spinning.

For instance, when you're driving 50mph, there is plenty of air flowing in the front airdam. Are the new designed fans letting this air flow more freely past them, for better airflow through the radiator?

You would have to test this or discuss it with the engineer who designed the new units.

-s-

I do think that there's an important point that hasn't received discussion--and that is the fan's effect on motor loading. If in fact these fans move more air at the same speed, they will require more power to do so and so they may overload the old motors from the original fans AND/OR the motor may just slow down and offset potential gains from larger fans. Anyone familiar with fan laws will know that the motors are matched to the fan design and load to achieve the best balance of flow, static pressure, overload characteristic, fan efficiency and power input. Someone correctly said in another post that more blade does not necessarily equal more flow. More blades and/or different pitch will require a different operating point, which is why the motors were redesigned.

We do not know what the full reasoning as to why Mazda redesigned the fans., no matter what the marketing spin. It is possible that the new fans & motors run at a slower speeds to improve efficiencly and reduce noise. Or it may just be a different vendor, better price, etc.. Or it may have been necessary to regain airflow lost to a thicker radiator core...

Testing is indicated...

We can, however, make some comparative measurements between the different sets of fan blades without having to resort to measuring airflow itself.

If someone out there has both sets of fan blades and wants to do a little research on this, there is an alternative way to determine if the fans are more effective over the stock ones on the same motors. This should be easy to do and you could do it on the bench or in the car. OK, I'll keep it simple: The fan will load the motor according to the amount of air that it is moving. (Or more accurately, the weight of the air that it is moving.) So what you want to do is get a good clamp-on DC current probe (resolution better the 0.1A should suffice). Put it on the common lead from the motor to ground in order to capture all windings. Proceed to take reference measurements at known speeds for each motor and record the data. Switch fan blades (but keep the same motors!!!) to the ones you want to test and proceed to exactly repeat the steps you previous used to gather data on the reference fans. Finally, take a set of measurements with NO fan blades mounted. You can put together a matrix for each fan/speed combination or just check each on high.

This will be a reasonably sensitive test of fans with simarly designed blades. Under otherwise identical conditions, More current = more airflow and vise versa. To test this relationship, completely block the airflow and watch the current drop. Conversly, hold the fan in free air with no restriction and current will rise.

So if anyone does this and you want to PM me with the results, I will run the calcs on it and tell all of you what I think the airflow difference is going to be on a percentage basis. (It is not a direct 1:1 relationship.) Also: Please note the ambient temperature and relative humidity at the time of the test.

BOTTOM LINE: Bigger is not going to be better unless there is enough reserve capacity in the exisiting motors to turn the larger fans at the required speed.

FWIW: Airflow through the core of the FD radiator is more of an impediment to proper cooling than the size of the core itself (for normal applications).

I actually work at a facilty that has air flow analysis equipment. If someone wanted to loan me an entire radiator/ fan assy along with the 2 types of fans I could determine the Impedence of the system while not running as well as the airflow vs power using each fan. If someonejust wanted to bring over just the fans w/ both blade types I could determine the impedence of each fan while not running and an airflow curve blah.

I'm sorry, but I am going to call bullshit on this one.

Your coolant temps will get to the exact same temperature, regardless of which fans you have, when the fans are triggered to come on. The newer fans may cool the temps more quickly when they come on, but they will not reduce the temp that they are triggered.

This was my point in my first posts on this subject. If you must depend on fans to keep your coolant temps under control, then you have other issues that need addressing than what type of fan assemblies are necessary.

For those who must depend on fans for this purpose (such as some of those with FMICs), then perhaps this may be a worthy upgrade. However, I consider it a bandaid on a much greater problem.