Is anyone running Ianetti ceramic apex seals?
Just curious for some recent experiences, I haven't heard much about them recently.
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Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
Just curious for some recent experiences, I haven't heard much about them recently.
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I have them in my engine since the last rebuild. Hven't put many miles on the car as it is on jackstands. With the weather warming back up, I should be able to put the car back together pretty quickly.
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My buddy runs them in his p-port racecar. The engine has blown up half a dozen times that I can think of but he's still on the same set of seals :)
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Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
Just curious for some recent experiences, I haven't heard much about them recently.
I had a chance to talk to Dr. Ianetti back in Oct 05. When asked about using his seals on Street driven car, he said he does not recommend it. That was his words.... But he does recommend it on track driven cars.. |
i have them, so far so good (~13k miles on the motor)
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From older experiences I've read, ceramics can still blow up, and when they do they shatter into many little pieces, causing even more damage to the engine's hard parts than the regular apex seals.
It's a helluva lot of money that could be spent on something else, IMHO. Dale |
Originally Posted by herblenny
Are you thinking about running them on your car?
I had a chance to talk to Dr. Ianetti back in Oct 05. When asked about using his seals on Street driven car, he said he does not recommend it. That was his words.... But he does recommend it on track driven cars.. |
Originally Posted by DaleClark
From older experiences I've read, ceramics can still blow up
If you break a ceramic seal you can rest assured that a metal seal would have already grenaded. How can a failed ceramic seal cause more damage than a failed metal seal? A failed metal seal will trash the rotor, housing and possibly plates. What's left to destroy??? The other advantage to ceramic seals is their light weight; they don't chatter at high rpm. I wouldn't bother running ceramic seals unless I was turning very high rpm, like in a p-port motor for instance. No sense in them for a street car IMO. |
So would the real reason for not running them in a street application just be cost?? IE. it's not really worth spending the extra 100s on seals, because the stock ones last as long as most anything else in the engine, on a good tuned healty engine. Or do they cause excess wear, don't seal very good at lower rpms, etc.??
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I think I have a video clip of me asking Dr. Ianetti about using them on street prep cars. If I find it, I'll load it on you tube or something.... If my recollection is correct, he kind of dodge the question and gave me a very vague answer why he doesn't recommend on street cars... and he himself said, go with OEM Mazda seals!
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Originally Posted by SPICcnmGT
So would the real reason for not running them in a street application just be cost?? IE. it's not really worth spending the extra 100s on seals, because the stock ones last as long as most anything else in the engine, on a good tuned healty engine. Or do they cause excess wear, don't seal very good at lower rpms, etc.??
I wish I could remember more about the heat cycling conversation I had...maybe someone knows more about what I'm thinking...or maybe I'm confusing something else. Race engines are run hard all the time at high temps...and broken down often. Big difference...Street cars cruise more than WOT (at least they are suppose to)...and want to last 100k miles. A friend of mine in ATL had a (Mandeville) motor built with these and it blasted a seal in very few thousand miles. Made good power for a GT35/40...450rwhp IIRC |
Here is some info i got when I was at Mandeville racing we should all know Roger Mandeville is. Anyways he said the Seal cost 3 times as much but dont wear. They much much more stronger and would prob out last the housing before you have to change the seals. If tuned properly a race tuned engine should last the whole season! You can re-use the seals and slo there is no clearancing. Therefore no break in time needed. Install and go i guess you could say. I would love to install them on my car and Im debating it since I ordered my rebuild kit but left the seals out.
So there is some information about that. Oh and I know the shop i used to work for Can-Saf racing is using them in thier race engine 20bPP which roger built. |
bearings are what need the longest break-in...however Engman breaks them in on a lathe :D
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Originally Posted by DamonB
Anything can still be blown up. However the ceramic seals will take far, far more abuse before failing than any metal seal.
If you break a ceramic seal you can rest assured that a metal seal would have already grenaded. How can a failed ceramic seal cause more damage than a failed metal seal? A failed metal seal will trash the rotor, housing and possibly plates. What's left to destroy??? Typically when stock apex seals go (and I've been into my share of blown TurboII engines) you need a rotor housing, MAYBE a rotor, that's it. Sometimes the damage to the rotor is on the face of the rotor, and if it's flat, it works just fine. I don't think I've ever seen irons taken out by a broken apex seal. Again, this is second hand information from a LONG time back. At the end of the day, it's nearly 2 GRAND for the ceramics, which is just damn steep. That's a lot of professional dyno time for a VERY quality tune. Dale |
I've blown ceramic seals.
Fuel starvation once and a poor tune another time (starts with a B). These were with NRS 3mm 1-piece seals though. With the poor tune, the seals took out everything. Rotor, rotor housing, side housings and turbo were wasted unlike any other damage I had seen from a blown seal. The motor wouldn't turn over any more. That guy will never come within 100 yards of my car again without a hail of gunfire. The other time from fuel starvation the seal just cracked into two pieces with no damage. Engine still ran but showed lower compression ~60 psi iirc. There was no damafge to anything else. I wanted to jump into a hail of gunfire after this one. There is a pic of the seal on the forum somewhere. |
In regards to all the pm's I've been getting, I will not say exactly who tuned the car. I'm afraid I (or the sangria) have said too much already.
Sas for the seals, I still believe in them and know they have saved me several times before and since. That being siad, nothing is bullet prooof. p.s. don't eat the slices of fruit at the botom |
Originally Posted by GOTBANNED?
Oh and I know the shop i used to work for Can-Saf racing is using them in thier race engine 20bPP which roger built.
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Originally Posted by RX-Heven
In regards to all the pm's I've been getting, I will not say exactly who tuned the car. I'm afraid I (or the sangria) have said too much already.
Sas for the seals, I still believe in them and know they have saved me several times before and since. That being siad, nothing is bullet prooof. p.s. don't eat the slices of fruit at the botom |
Does anybody have data on spring wear with Ianetti Apex Seals? I spoke with Dr. Ianetti today, and he didn't know how long the springs would last in a street / occasional race environment.
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