Another FD start issue
 

So here’s the story guys.

after months of work, I got my FD running, went and got it fresh gas, came home and let it idle. It idled and then stalled out. I tried to start it again but it would just try to catch on like making ignition noises but it would never catch and start. I looked under the UIM and found puddles of gasoline on top of the rotor housings so I thought, oh fuel pressure probably went low due to a leak and it shut off.

anyway I fixed that leak today, attempted to start, and the same issue. Now I’m dumbfounded because it ran great before. Here’s another variable, when I fixed the leak, I touched the alternator wire with my wrench for a split second and a few sparks flew. I checked all the fuses under the steering column and they’re fine. I checked my main 120amp fuse and it’s fine. I even tested the fuel pump by jumping gnd and f/p and fuel pump runs. All interior lights and even headlights turn signals etc work.

so what could it be guys? If it’s trying to make ignition sounds right now but doesn’t start that means I have fuel and spark and I know I have compression since it just recently ran great. It’s also getting air for sure. Tomorrow I plan to start by checking the fuel pressure by plumbing a gauge at the firewall fuel line. Let me know if you guys have ideas. Trying to get her running this week to impress my woman! (She hasn’t seen this damn car run in months but I’m close :lol:)


forgot to add I had a no start issue before but I fixed it by cleaning the injectors (they got stuck from sitting after being sent out to clean). This time I ran the car right after they were cleaned again to flush the cleaning fluid out of them so I don’t think they’re stuck again. Also the car makes rumbles like it’s trying to start which should be a sign of injectors firing and spraying fuel into the compartment

Might just be flooded again, deflood before anything else, check the plugs like before and get any fuel out of the housings

Pull off the intake prior to the elbow and see if it will run briefly on starting fluid. If it catches, runs, and then dies you probably have a fuel delivery issue with the pump.

You mentioned the car sat, how long did it sit and have you had a look inside the fuel tank at all?

Perhaps provide a link to your prior thread, so folk can know what you already know.

As you may recall I was dealing with a similar flooding/non-starting issue as you.

The final things that contributed to the getting the motor to run were:

1. Changed out the gas.
2. Replaced the coils.
3. Took off the ISC and let the intake suck in a ton of air (while regulating the flow by partially covering the hole by hand.)

Once the car starting running and continued to start and run, I went looking for the possible root cause of the flooding. Things I did were:

1. Changed the fuel filter.
2. Discovered the FPR was not getting vacuum.
3. Removed and had the injectors refurbished (replaced the FPR and FPD with new).There was some evidence the injectors had been leaking.

With the clean injectors the car is running quite rich, but so far no additional flooding events. (I still start the car by applying no gas pedal.)

Current assumption is the tune on the Power FC was done based on the weakened flows from the dirty injectors. So I will be going for a tune refresh soon.

So that might be one of your issues: that your tune was done based on weak injectors, and now you are flooding.

(Note: We were hampered by my AFR gauge not working. I replaced that as well and thereby can see the rich running pattern, including a brief very rich running moment on decel.)

Ok guys first of all thank you all so much for the feedback. It really means a lot to me when you guys take your precious time to respond to me.

So before I test the fuel gauge I just wanted to let you know I attempted to start it and it made ignition sounds but didn’t start. I put starting fluid in it and now it doesn’t make ignition sounds. Currently sitting in the car with EGI out and cranking to see if I can get an easy deflood this way without pulling out plugs first. Hopefully it’s just flooded.

also later today I’ll link my previous thread. Currently this car has half a tank of fresh week old gas and the other half is since last fall.

Ok so after I did the egi unflood procedure, maybe this is just coincidence or not but I tried to start again and it’s back to making ignition sounds but that’s it. I guess next step is to check the fuel pressure that’s going to the feed line. I can verify pump works for sure because when I jump it I can hear it

edit: tried to start again but this time by mashing the gas pedal while trying to start and it kept making ignition sounds for a solid 30 seconds straight. Never has been able to been this close to starting before. Maybe that means fuel pressure is low because it doesn’t have enough constant flow to run?

I may have the answer. Several years ago, I also touched the alternator hot for a split second. The car would not restart no matter what I did after the incident. The car made some ignition noise but no go. After days and days of troubleshooting I finally found the problem. When I grounded the hot lead on the alternator it partially melted the main fuse but not completely. There was a little current still passing through but not enough to start the car. Pull your main fuse and look at it closely under a magnifying glass to see if it is partially melted. You could also check the resistance across the poles or leads once it is out to see if the resistance is almost zero, which it should be. If it's bad, you can get one at Autozone for $15-20 and it hopefully starts after deflooding again.
Mike

hey Mike,
I actually already replaced the 120 main fuse as a preemptive measure. Still no luck

Also I want to make this note.

I took out EGI and cranked and it was still making some ignition sounds. That means there is fuel in the compartments and it’s flooded?

Want to make a correction.

first time I pulled the egi RELAY not fuse.

I just pulled the fuse and it no longer made any ignition sounds. It just cranked and cranked and when I checked the exhaust some little bit of smoke was coming out.

put battery on charge and will try again with egi FUSE in this time and see if she starts

Our theory on my car was that it was instantly flooding after every deflood.

That is why we pulled the ISC valve to give the intake a lot of air, after the TB, to offset the flooding.

I still don't trust the old gas.

If you are checking in your tank for corrosion sediment, check the debris sock.

It can clog up, but then the debris floats off until the next time the pump sucks it into the sock.

Although we tested the coils for spark, we suspected the spark might have been weak. Changing the coils might have been one of the things that helped me.

I don't know if your alternator short could have damaged one, or more, of your coils.

For reference:

https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/...age_watch_list

I don't know what this does but it is part of the fuel pump circuit and the wires have to run a long way back and forth to it through the Front harness


https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/...uggest_history

Pulling the EGI relay and/or EGI fuse may not cut the fuel pump. It seems there may be redundant circuits to the fuel pump.

To make sure the pump would not run, we undid the wiring harness at the fuel pump end.

Make sure you plug the fuel pump wire back in before trying to start.

Mikejokich makes a great point. I've had that problem before but with the battery. After bad contact with things it shouldn't touch, my battery would read 12V but would have nothing in terms of amperage. I've also seen a bunch of fuses that were "closed" but didn't allow enough current to be of use.

The FD has its own deflood procedure where you don't need to pull anything. Hold the gas to the floor and then start cranking, keep the pedal down, don't pump it. This disables the injectors. As it cranks it should slowly start making more and more "starting sounds" and eventually catch and die. Only then release the pedal and fire it up normally.

IF that doesn't work then start troubleshooting deeper. Looking at the plugs, checking fuel pressure, checking the fuel sock, current to the pump, alternator (maybe the regulator went during the arc). After all that then deeper still: coils, coil wires, injectors (sticking open?), igniter, pressure regulator.

Thinking back to your other thread, I don't think it has anything to do with your timing wheel and plugs, maybe just hit the NE and G sensors with some brakleen to ensure they're nice and clean. It may be a longshot but the tune may have flipped a bit - but that's prob the final thing after all the others have been checked.

It's the fuel pump resistor located in the engine bay under the igniter. It reduces fuel pump speed (via resistance) until the ECU closes a relay bypassing it and allowing the fuel pump to operate at its true speed.

ok I’ll do this tomorrow. I’ll attempt to deflood by holding the pedal to the ground and cranking until it catches and dies. Does this mean keep the starter spinning (cranking) until I feel it catch and die? Or crank for 15 seconds, pause and wait 15 seconds, and repeat?

You can do 15 seconds and pause, just keep the pedal down.

dude you are a genius. Car started and not too long after I held it down. It burped a bit and I kept holding it down and then it caught on and I let off gas and it kept running. Weird I was convinced it wasn’t flooded because it’s never flooded before but maybe after me messing around the fuel system it did.

runs great now and I don’t know if this is related to my fuel leak before and it possibly seeping into some unseen compartment but I had smoke come out of the turbo area for a little bit. It would smoke for 10 min straight. Stop for a few min, continue, stop and now maybe for 20 min or so it hasn’t smoked so maybe just leftover gas that was on top of the motor burnt off? Btw this is it just idling, I haven’t driven it as I was letting apexi adjust

fyi before you think it’s oil or coolant it’s not. I completely refreshed those systems and put stainless steel oil lines. It’s bulletproof so it’s either gas or exhaust leak.

I’ll attach a pic of where it’s coming from with the area circled.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...97ced4c74.jpeg

Still hasn’t smoked so I’m assuming it’s fine. I checked the places where it used to leak on top of the motor and they’re dry. Also if there’s wetness in that picture it was raining lol

Update so it no longer smokes but it stalls out very easily if I try to drive it. Maybe apexi still needs to learn? I’ve idled it for way more than 30 minutes though. For example when I put clutch in and first gear and try to let off clutch and give it gas, idle drops considerably until it stalls almost or straight up stalls. I was thinking maybe because it has half a tank of 6 month old fuel and half a tank of 2 week old fuel but I drove it 2 weeks ago to get gas on just 6 month old gas and it drove great. Hmmmmm


edit: some notes: I have emissions deleted I blocked off ACV and replaced air pump with pulley. Just tried to turn off o2 feedback in my FD. Attached will be a picture of my sensors on the apexi as the car is running. My idle keeps dipping to ~600 rpm range at times too

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...0e4ed3a3c.jpeg

I was going to ask if the "pedal to the floor method" still worked with the power fc. Has not worked for me. But it did not quite follow the exact steps suggested above.

We also, at one point, suspected leaky injectors.

And we found some evidence of that later.

Take another look at your TPS readings.

where can I see this?