Alternative/Replacement for Boost Control Solenoid
 

http://www.perrinperformance.com/pro...ersal/ebcs.htm

I have no experience with this, but I found it interesting because of the relative low cost. It can be used to replace stock solenoid as well as aftermarket boost controllers.

Anyone know if any decent boost control can be had by using this replacement boost solenoid along with a PFC, or would it be simpler and more effective to use a unit like a Profec and the like?

Cheers.
David

http://www.perrinperformance.com/pro...id?category=37

Here is the new link. Anybody have luck swapping this in place of the OE solenoid? The PFC should be able to manage boost using lower vent %.

How easy or hard is it to get to the OE wastegate solenoid to disconnect? What do I need to take off to get access to it?

Anyone know where I can get an OE type female harness (radio shack?) to wire to the Perrin solenoid for easy connection to the ecu harness? I have an apexi avcr with solenoid (not to use, but for reference) on hand. It looks, from some low-res forum pics, to be the same size as the OE harness. Does any know if the harness are identical or the OE harness? If so I can take it to radioshack to test fitment.

The Apexi solenoids are only slightly more than that - and they come with an FD specific connector.

If you want to control boost, get a boost controller. The stock solenoids are a waste of time on most any modified setup, and even with the PowerFC's control you're still wasting your time.

For all the cost and effort you could have put in a good used electronic boost controller and been done with it. Or, hook up that AVC-R you're looking at.

BTW, Radio Shack is a good place for RC cars and stereo cables, that's about it :). Any of the connectors you'll find on the FD are damn near impossible to source - trust me, I've tried. Again, not a problem when you ditch the factory boost control and hook up a boost controller.

Dale

Mac makes some 3 way replacment boost solenoids that cost 17-$25. Same solenoid used in the haltech and aem that are over $100. Im sure it could also be used with the pfc boost control functions, especially with all the testing that arghx has done.

What about the Delphi GT Series? The picture shown at page 8 of their catalog
http://delphi.com/pdf/contact/brochu...balCatalog.pdf
closely resembles the OE connectors to the PC and WG solenoids.
I want to try and evaluate using these 3-ports solenoids with the PFC, as suggested by arghx. https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/why-engine-so-damn-complicated-part-1-sequential-turbos-demystified-841821/page3/ Would prefer not to hack the harness and I am looking for compatible connectors.

Any lead would be highly appreciated.

Thanks.

- Sandro

From what I can tell, the precontrol/wastegate connectors are AMP/Tyco part #174352-2 http://www.tycoelectronics.com/catal...3288,46917&N=8

http://www.tycoelectronics.com/catal...s/pr174352.jpg

that's for the harness (male) side. It is the same style as the other Econoseal J series connectors here: http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/ind.../cPath/109_172 except that ballengar motorsports doesn't sell the two-way plug, so I had to find the Tyco part number. Amp is I think a Japanese subsidiary of Tyco, which explains why they manufacturer many of the electrical connectors on 80s and 90s Japanese cars. The factory FD ECU plugs are also made by AMP and are very similar style to the Nissan and Honda ones I've worked with for cars of that era.

I'm pretty sure the solenoid side connector is here: http://www.tycoelectronics.com/catal...&RQPN=174354-2 I think it's part # 174354-2

http://www.tycoelectronics.com/catal...s/pr174354.jpg

One thing to note though is that there are a couple similar looking plugs with different part #s in the Tyco catalog. I'm 90% sure those two would work but you can't be positive without testing. It might be a good idea to call up Ballengar Motorsports ( (804) 915-7201 is listed on their website ) and see if they can just get pigtails for the two way connectors. Otherwise for the solenoid side you would need the pins: http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pro...roducts_id/680 and this crimper may work: http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pro...roducts_id/362 so you can assemble the connector yourself on to whatever aftermarket solenoid you choose to use.

Also, dudemaan pointed out that http://www.frightprops.com/FrightPro...ID=A-0013-0082 are basically the same as the Haltech and AEM solenoids.

One more thing to note. From the research I've done (a wise man by the name of Google.com), the Profec/AVC-R solenoid runs at 30hz. Since the Profec/AVC-R is a direct replacement for the factory solenoid, it is reasonable to believe that the factory solenoid runs at a frequency near 30hz. The Perrin solenoid is rated for a range of 20-40hz if I remember correctly, and the last time I messed with Halwin I thought the default boost control frequency was 30hz.

What I'm trying to get at here is that there is a good chance that most available boost control solenoids will work well enough with the PFC. Usually the 3 way solenoids have the NC port on the side opposite the COM port and the NO port in the middle between those two. They're all pretty similar.

Thanks for the information Raymond, comprehensive and exhaustive - as usual...

I had sent an email to BM earlier this morning, asking help to identify the right connector. I ordered yesterday the 3-w MAC solenoid valves from the Halloween vendor you mentioned. I also ordered this "speed control" exhaust http://www.frightprops.com/FrightPro...ID=A-0011-0030 just to have one more parameter to play with...

Also found this other source/info on the MAC valves http://www.airhydropower.com/MacStoc...og/sm3way4.htm

- Sandro

While waiting for MB to reply, I just ordered a free sample of this directly from Tyco in PA. I will let you know...

Does the free sample come with pins? Will be interesting to see what you discover.

No, only the casing. It's a start...

http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pro...&wx=300&hx=300

these are the pins, 25 cents each: http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pro...atlk6v9p8ocqa3 . i posted a crimping tool above. I presume it is the same pins and connector housing as what comes on the Denso-made Apex'i AVC-R solenoid, which costs more but will connect to the stock harness. I wonder: is there a yellow retaining clip for the solenoid side plug, I don't have my solenoid near me right now. And is it a separate part number from the female housing I posted?

The free sample I ordered from TYco, PA is the male (solenoid connector) - which is really the only connector I need - assuming it will properly connect to the OE harness connector. The sample I believe is the housing only, without the assembly.

The pins you posted above are for the female assembly. The male pins should be these ones
http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pro...roducts_id/793

Attached are pictures of the Apexi connectors (solenoid-male and AVCR harness-female). There is no yellow retaining clip for the solenoid side connector. The only yellow part is the assembly inside the housing. Again...to bad BM only seem to carry the 3-pin assembly. Incidentally, they still have not replied my email

The male housing of the Apexi looks identical to the part # 174354-2 you identified earlier.

wait. IF you have an unused AVCR lying around, why are you ordering a solenoid? Just use the AVCR one.

also, did I get male and female reversed then? I was going off of memory, sorry.

That would make this project too easy :)

The drawing you posted at #13 shows the "sockets" pins that receive the male terminals http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pro...roducts_id/793 I believe

I also spent some more time researching connectors, comparing drawings, etc. And I am now convinced these are indeed the right connectors

AMP Econoseal J Series [Mark II (+)]

The question now is. How to find a vendor who carries the ones with the "2 position"? The Tyco website has links to distributors. The minimum order seems to be 1,000-1,500 units.
A heck of a Group Buy...

I think ballengar motorsports may be your only likely bet. Explain to them that they are the same connectors as the Greddy Profec and AVC-R solenoid, which people do use for various standalones like the AEM EMS and of course the Power FC. They may see the potential demand for the connectors and choose to stock them on a permanent basis.

Update:

- I was notified by Tyco that the sample shipped yesterday.

- BMotorsport answered

---------------
Sandro,

Good work! We can bring that connector in but I believe your application originally uses Sumitomo connectors. These AMP connectors may be a valid cross. I have one of the purge control solenoids here so I can test it when we get them in which will probably be 1 week. If validated, how many do you need?

Regards,

James Ballenger
---------------

Good news, isn't it?

It would good if could give JB and indication on how many we may need.

Who would be interested?

At this point of my research, and mostly through the exhaustive information I got from arghx, I am convinced that using 3-ports MAC solenoids with the PFC will be a significant improvement over the 2-ports stock solenoid and possibly a superior cost effective solution over stand alone EBC, which use (I believe all do) 3-ports solenoids. First of all - for those using the Datalogit - you could still log the duties, which would be essential for tuning the system. Second - for those with sequential - you could use two separate solenoids for added tuning flexibility.

Also, obviously it would be good to have a source for replacing the connectors of other solenoid valves (Apexi or Profec) if they get damaged.

Please speak up. Thanks,

- Sandro

The part numbers for the MAC solenoids are # 35A-AAA-DDBA-1BA and 35A-AAA-DDEA-1BA will also work. They are both basically the same. You can find distributors on the AMP website and can be purchased for around $17 through the distributors. it's the same solenoid that AEM and haltech use and will probably work to replace greddy, apexi and etc. Much better price then the $100 + most places want.

Yes, I received today 2 x 35A-AAA-DDBA-1BA I bought them at Frightsprops for $26.50 each.

Here is a picture of the valves taken side by side with the Apexi

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1256261395

see also https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...8&postcount=65

Thanks

First impression of the MAC 35A-AAA-DDBA-1BA
 

- very tiny, about half the size (and weight of the Apexi)

- ports are oriented like the Apexi, COM (to the actuator) is identified as port #2, across it, on the opposite side) is port #1 (vent), port #3 (boost source) is in between the two, at 90 deg. Ports 2 and 3 are connected if the solenoid is de-energized (boost to the actuator fail-safe); ports 2 and 1 are connected when the solenoid is energized (bleed from the actuator)

- measured impedance at 26 ohm; tag W=5.4 at VDC=12 @ 27 ohm, very close

- tested for sealing - threads need teflon; at first I was afraid they would leak; wrapped threads of the 1/8 " NTP fittings with a round of teflon red and re-tested OK at 30 psi pressure and 28 inHg vac (re. dgeesaman procedure https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...light=solenoid)

Received the sample of the connector housing today
http://www.tycoelectronics.com/catal...&RQPN=174354-2

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1256427783

Good news!

It's identical to the Apexi solenoid connector, which matches the OE harness.
In the pic you can see the back of the the two connectors, the Apexi left and the sample right. You can see the molds are the same. Incidentally, as I was taking the pic, I noticed both have small AMP logos (not visible in the low res picture attached)

- Sandro

Good work. I'd be interested in five or six if Ballenger decide to stock them.

on those new solenoids, port 2 is on the left in the diagrams (COM), port 1 is on the right (NC), and port 3 is in the middle (NO)?

hook port 3 to the boost source and port 2 to the actuator. leave port 1 vented. if you don't, you're not blocking the wastegate signal, you're just switching from one pressure source to the other as the solenoid cycles on and off rapidly. look at all the "blocker type" vacuum routing diagrams for various aftermarket boost controllers. port 1 is never hooked to a boost source. It is either vented or recirculated to the intake to reduce noise.

This is no different than hooking up a Greddy Profec.

Yes thanks. I believe this is what I meant to say in my post #21 above.

Port #1 (vent) is NC (close) when the solenoid is de-energized, and open when the solenoid is energized (like the OE two-way PC and WG "bleed" control valves).
Port #2 (COM) is always open (whether the solenoid is energized or not) and gets connected to the actuator.
Port #3 (boost source) - in the middle - is NO (open) when the solenoid is de-energized, and closes when the solenoid is energized.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...7&d=1256467838

This configuration is fail-safe. If the solenoid fails and get de-energized while operating (i.e. boost is present) the boost source would force the actuator to open the WG.

Not sure what you meant by saying "not blocking the wastegate signal" or "switching from one pressure source to the other" but I believe we are on the same page.

Thanks

- Sandro