alignment issues.
 

so over the past few days my steering wheel has been going more and more away from being straight. so i went to get an alignment and the guy says that he cannot get my right front caster and front cross-caster to get within spec. he says i have "tire pull" the only tires that are in poor shape are the rears. not the fronts.

either way,

right front caster is 8.31*. spec should be between 5.08*-7.08*


front cross caster is -1.69*. spec should be between -1.00*-1.00*

any ideas what could be the issue?

worn out bushing would be my guess

was you engine subframe plane when you did your swap? I've read of some that weren't plane which could potentially affect alignment settings.

I would imagine it was plane. My whole issue started a few days ago and got worse. The steering wheel is cocked to the right to go straight. When I hit the brakes the car feels like it pulls left. I checked in under the car I had a loose subframe bolt and a loose control arm bolt. So I'm sure that had something to do with it. But what gets me is that I cannot get it fixed by a shop that has one of those sophisicated machines.

You can't fix a bad bushing with an alignment. Assuming it is a bad bushing.

I don't see what else it could be other than perhaps a bent frame which is unlikely.

Lastly, a sophisticated machine requires a sophisticated user...

completely agreed. this may be a dumb question, but would a busing go bad that fast in a matter of days? (i know years of wear but a complete notice of difference in 2-3 days?)

Soooooo, the string and non-electronic "hand tools" I've done hundreds of race and street car alignments with aren't "sophisticated" enough? :scratch: Hmmm I guess I've been doing it all wrong.......oh well. :dunno:

-J

I personally don't know. I speculate it could slowly wear and get sloppy and then fail suddenly when it reached its limit or hit a bad bump. These cars are pretty old at this point.

Check the lower and upper control arm bushings as well as the shock tower points.

Double check your engine sub frame as well.

Try another shop as well. Check where the autocrossers and racers go. Or try KD in PA

Reading these posts really bring to light how poorly alignment settings are understood by most people in the general public.

Your major angles for alignment are your toe settings, camber settings, and caster settings. The Toe and Camber are typically easy to demonstrate and understand. I've found Caster to be somewhat misunderstood by most folks. Technically, Caster is the calculated angle of the upper and lower balljoints in relationship to one another. The effect of this is that the position of the tire's contact patch can be placed fore and aft of the axle's centerline.

Many alignment guys look for the right (passenger) side of the vehicle to "lead" the left (driver) side by as much as .5*. These guys typically state that it is like that to account for the crown in the road. I prefer to set my alignment as close to the center marks as possible.

In your case you state that your FR caster is 8.31* with -1.69* cross caster. This means that your FL caster is 10*!!! something is definitely up with that! do you have aftermarket wheels or lowered suspension?

It is possible that a bushing is bad but any alignment tech worth his salt can identify a bad bushing with a proper inspection while it's on the rack. If these numbers are accurate then you probably need to check the frame or sub-frame for damage or loose parts.

Since you've stated that the pull increases dramatically when you apply the brakes I would check all of the bushings, ball joints, and tie rods in the front end and check your brakes for a dragging caliper. I would suspect a problem in the FL suspension or brakes. If you let go of the wheel what direction does the car go?

Ray

if i let the wheel go it pulls slight left. and here are the rest of the number he gave me from his print out. incase anything else will be of any help

f/l wheel ______f/r wheel
-.03* camber .03*
6.62* caster 8.31*
.08* toe .07*

cross camber -.06*
cross caster -1.69*
total toe .14*

r/l wheel ______ r/r
-1.17* camber -1.21*
.11* toe .11*

total toe .22*
thrust angle 0*


i do have the car lowered and different wheels. but its what the car came with and ive driven on for the past 3 years now. so it has not always been like this. 3-4 days ago my wheel (when going straight) was --- .right now to hold the wheel straight looks like this \ (no so dramatic but im sure u get what im saying)

right...... :icon_tup: :icon_no2:

The engine subframe bolt were tightened prior to getting the alignment done

O jeese. I was going to get my car realigned. I was hoping I could take it to sears and that would be the end of it.

Which subframe did you use? Hinson, Horrible Sponsor, or Justin?

LOL you sound like a Mac user !!! :lol: (j/k)

LOL. Not at all.

I've just had too many experiences going to alignment shops that are supposed to be good but the alignment tech is lazy, dumb or just plain doesn't care. I've also been to a variety of places where the machines weren't calibrated properly - or regularly enough - to be accurate.

Hinson subframe kit

If anything you should look at your bushings and balljoints to see if anything is loose or too much play. If the balljoints are out, an alignment no matter how close to spec would do nothing.

I think GTray said it best

Also don't forget to check the rear it might be the cause due to brake drag as well.

hey gracer7-rx7, I'm also in the bay area, so do you know any shops that you "would" recommend for getting alignment? I have heard there is a shop in Castro Valley that is pretty good, but I still have not been there yet.

(to anyone) .. does the forum have any listings of "recommended" alignment shops in major areas? LA, SF, etc ..

^PM'ing you to keep the thread on topic

thanksguys for all the posts. i took it back to the shop today and dealt with the owner. he said regardless of how the car pulls, the steering wheel should never be anything but straight after an alightment. they will be rechecking everything on saturday. ill keep you guys posted. thanks again!