I look forward to this system. I am running the upgraded turbos from TEC which they tell me offer 25% more air flow. I figured if I dyno 274 RWHP with stock engine and stock turbos, so once my new Pineapple Racing motor is broken in and I tune the PFC, with the upgraded turbos I should be able to get 400 RWHP. But I am always looking for more power. I would have to venture and say I think keeping the sequential would be prefered to a parallel system in terms of power delivery, but that might be a personal preference. Its sad all my friends (with the exception of 1) are converting to single turbo. I can't buy into it yet. Then again it took so much to convince me the PFC is a good system :)

cheers

W

I've heard good things about the TEC turbos. KDR has installed a few sets of those and somebody gained 25 rwhp just from switching (same psi) running sequential. Instead of the 2 psi dip there was a 3-4 psi dip at transition with the bigger turbos which would seem to put a lot of pressure and stress on the secondary shaft. The stock manifold is a choker and won't produce much more than 400 rwhp although it's been done before but the one's I've seen getting 390-400 rwhp have all been non-sequential. Smoother power delivery. Although I bet it would be a blast to drive a sequential upgraded twin FD like Jason's M2 turboed FD. I'm going to the dyno tomorrow with my BNR upgrades running parallel to run some numbers and get tuned. I'm hoping for a cool day like it has been - I know just with cooler days hp can differ by 25-30 rwhp with just 40 degrees difference. I like the upgraded turbo route. Not many people have them and they are unique - everyone in the world has singles now and they are almost boring to read about.

BFTE, do you mean that the exhaust wheels are smaller than stock? I think that would be a huge restriction...

I've got to admit that I wasn't too excited when I first saw your dyno numbers, but I'm warming up to this setup. If you can get another 25+ hp from tuning and the Dynapack reads a bit lower, you may soon be approaching 400 hp on a Dynojet. Beats a sharp stick in the eye, for sure.

One thing that interests me is your low mph in the 1/4. Yes, you were having boost problems, but many 7s have run faster at 12 psi on stock turbos. I look forward to better numbers when tuning and debugging have been completed.

Exhaust wheel size
 

Hmmm - smaller than stock, no, but smaller than what normally would have come with that wheel, yes.

I have no explanation for my slow mph at under 12 lbs.....

What is the difference between the Dynapack and Dynojet?

Beast

Update - 110.663 mph
 

The new twins were able to muster a 110.663 trap speed at 16 psi on street tires (Potenza re730s) last night at Sac Raceway. My et's are still 13.7 due to NO TRACTION. I'll be playing with my timing now than my fuel maps are in a much better ballpark. I think I can get more low-end torque and faster spool-up.

Beast

Re: Update - 110.663 mph
 

Beast,

I don't understand how you can only do 13.7 on street tires with 16lbs of boost?! I hate to say this, but I've hit 12.8 on street tires w/ 300 treadwear at only 13-14lbs of boost @ 109mph. I guess you are running very rich. Last night was a perfect COOL night to run the turbos too. Oh well, I hope you get it tuned, 'cause if you're running over 16lbs of boost you should clearly be in the 12's with street tires. I wish I was there. Oh well. I might be going to the last grudge match of the year at sac raceway this saturday. It should be fun.


see ya,

car 53

he explained he had no traction

Not really too rich
 

My afr's at full boost per Datalogit and wideband are between 11 and 10.5 all the way to redline. I could lean them out a bit more, but I want to keep things safe.

From 6k rpms in second, I just spin the tires. I tried feathering the throttle, but no luck. I either spin or bog.

I'm not the best dragger, obviously. I'm stunned that you can get to 12.5 at those boost levels and tires. You're just a better driver than I am, I guess. Cold tires and cold track - tire spin, and cool air = more power = tire spin.

Beast

i ran 16lbs on those m2s and i have no doubt he only was in the 13s.....it was fishtailing tire smoking fun all they way to third gear on GOOD RUBBER.

Ive never felt a stock rx7 that did that to me...scared me shitless.

I turned to boost back down to 15lbs and am now on a quest for more rubber.

those turbos of his are huge compared to stock...when that non seq kicks in it just breaks everything loose at that boost level...i...gotta have the rubber

do a run on slicks...thatll quiet em down.


j

Re: Not really too rich
 

Beast,

It's just that you're probably the only car I can compare mine to around sac. You've got a fast car, no doubt, I've ridden in it. But I guess if your afr's aren't putting out 100% per boost level, then that's understandable too. And it's better to be safe than sorry. All I have to rely on is the PFC. Here's my times on street tires @ 13-14lbs of boost;

Re: .874

I1 = 2.106
I2 = 5.586
I3 = 8.413
MPH (I3) = 87.964
I4 = 10.809

E.T. = 12.847

MPH = 110.682

Wheel hops on first and spinning in second, but once second gear hooked up....

Here's my times on DOT drag radials @ 13-14lbs of boost

Re: .448

I1 = 1.694
I2 = 5.061
I3 = 7.850
MPH (I3) = 88.765
I4 = 10.218

E.T. = 12.248

MPH = 111.136

Spin on first and hooked up on second......



see ya,

car 53:cool:

3 bar arrived two days ago
 

The Apexi 3 bar just arrived! Now I have to get it installed and figure out which PIM scale offset to use. The datalogit manual says Option 1 is preset to use the Apexi 3 bar .... we'll see.

I'll redyno at 16 lbs boost now that I've lowered my timing and boosted fuel to compensate. My turbos are now hitting full boost by 4800 rpm (it used to take until about 5500 rpm) , and getting into boost by 2000 rpm. After that I need to install a fuel pressure gauge and then we'll see what's what on the dyno at 18 lbs. After that I'm getting a bit nervous on pos 91 octane Kalifornia gas....not sure about the Nippo pump, either. Might also go to 850 primaries.

Mickey Thomson ET Streets, a new SA2000 helmet, and I'll be ready for next season (you listening, car 53? :-)

Beast

Updated dyno sheet - 29 more lbs of torque, 9 more bhp
 

OK, I've been working with a reputable PFC/Datalogit tuner via email and he's basically redone my original map from scratch. Since we are geographically separated by many miles tuning is a bit more challenging, but after three changes we needed a quick dyno pull to see where peak torque was at. Here are the results, still running 16 lbs boost.

Old:
330.6 rwhp @ 7189 rpm
264 ft. lbs rwt @ 5814 rpm

New:
339.6 rwhp @ 6238 rpm
293.1 ft. lbs rwt @ 5353 rpm

Initial intake temps were 40 degrees C, running pump gas. The big improvement was torque, which is what the tuner is after first. Notice that the torque curve has shifted nicely up and to the left, with a flat table top profile. The midrange of the car is definitely more stout, and feels great.

The power drop you see at 6200 rpm was due to afrs hitting less than 10 and the car puked on gas. The tuner added another 5% fuel on top as a safety margin.

Anyway, he continues to chip away at the map, and each iteration has been better than the next. I'll keep everyone posted on the progress - it's time to return to the track to cut more bozai logs for my tuner anyway. It's too dangerous to do this stuff on the highway! Once we finish the 16lbs map, we will put in the 3Bar and some race gas to go hunting for some more serious numbers. The target on pump gas continues to be 400 rwhp.

Beast

Updated dyno sheet - 29 more lbs of torque, 9 more bhp
 

OK, I've been working with a reputable PFC/Datalogit tuner via email and he's basically redone my original map from scratch. Since we are geographically separated by many miles tuning is a bit more challenging, but after three changes we needed a quick dyno pull to see where peak torque was at. Here are the results, still running 16 lbs boost.

Old:
330.6 rwhp @ 7189 rpm
264 ft. lbs rwt @ 5814 rpm

New:
339.6 rwhp @ 6238 rpm
293.1 ft. lbs rwt @ 5353 rpm

Initial intake temps were 40 degrees C, running pump gas. The big improvement was torque, which is what the tuner is after first. Notice that the torque curve has shifted nicely up and to the left, with a flat table top profile. The midrange of the car is definitely more stout, and feels great.

The power drop you see at 6200 rpm was due to afrs hitting less than 10 and the car puked on gas. The tuner added another 5% fuel on top as a safety margin.

Anyway, he continues to chip away at the map, and each iteration has been better than the next. I'll keep everyone posted on the progress - it's time to return to the track to cut more bozai logs for my tuner anyway. It's too dangerous to do this stuff on the highway! Once we finish the 16lbs map, we will put in the 3Bar and some race gas to go hunting for some more serious numbers. The target on pump gas continues to be 400 rwhp.

Beast

Firewall causing issues attaching sheet
 

Don't know why, but this sheet is not attaching. I think my firewall from work is screwing things up. I can't attach the sheet. Sorry folks.

Beast

I dunno, I made 316 RWHP 265 TQ on my stock turbos with 156K original miles.

http://members.aol.com/zerobanger/rx7dynoHP.jpg

seems 330 @ 16 psi is way dissapointing.

<sigh>This is just one step .....
 

I'll make myself more clear - we are in the process of tuning - this was the first step. The bhp was at only 6200 rpm before the afrs went to 9.2 and the car stumbled - there is another 40 to 50 rwhp there once the fuel is cleaned up. Then more timing tweaks to get to the magic 400 mark. The motor just barely got going.

I'm just updating folks on progress. If this was the end, then yes it would be disappointing.

Beast

PS - made 339.6 rwhp, not 330. 10 rwhp makes a big difference in our cars. 30 more lbs of torque is a huge step up as well. If you (or someone else) could post an email addy I could send the file to then maybe you can post it up for me? my firewall seems to be preventing me from putting it up.

Also, this is on a dynapack, not a dynojet, and it looks like dynojet numbers are higher based on other statements I've heard.

Beast

yes..you are right. My 315.8 rwhp was done on an australian dynometer dyna pac, but that was corrected to match what a dyno-jet would show. In otherwords, prior to the correction it showed 275 rwhp. If yours was done on the same type of dyno as mine you will be around 390 to the wheels.

Beast..

Without me having to decipher though 10,000 posts, what exact set of turbos do you have on your car?

Re: Checkpoint beat you to it
 

i think this is your answer Zerobanger, unless things changed somewhere in there.

with these, the BNR stage 3's and the A-Spec kit... it's an exciting time for twin turbos. keep us posted Beast

I dont know about the BNR III's. To date nobody unbias has reported anything good (or bad) about the BNR's on the forum. Im a bit skeptical.

....=/ gonna have to cry again tonight

TWIN GT3540's? Dude that is absolutely insane. You will never ever be able to push those turbos in their peak effieciency range...

And how in the hell did you get them to fit in their with a modified stock manifold?!?!? Here is a set of twin GT3037's (smaller than the GT3540) on a custom tubular manifold...and it barely fits!!

http://www.jouleusa.com/images/DSC01049.JPG

I want to see pics of this twin 3540 setup, please :D

Re: First dyno run with hybrid twins
 

Am i understanding this correctly....you need to reinstall the accelerated warm up hose back into the greddy elbow as oppose to simply installing a filter on it?
If that is in fact what you are saying then this is the first time that I have heard this in five yrs from the mailing list or the forum and unltimately several thousands of people running the elbow have a problem...can someone verify this?

More clarity - not twin 35/40s, yes the fast idle hose leaks boost
 

I need to clarify a couple of things - I was misinformed during the turbo prototyping/build process that these were going to be 35/40s - they are not. They are more like t-60 sized compressor wheels with Garrett BB cartridges and upgraded shafts, which is smaller than 35/40s. There are guys 'down under' running twin 35/40 setups similar to what is pictured above, using methanol, and big numbers are the result (600+ bhp), but that is not what I have. There would be no hope of passing Kalifornia smog with such a setup.

I apologize for any confusion/BS flag temptation - my bad on that.

As far as the fast idle hose, it does vent boost - you could see the water vapor coming out of it. I hit a wall at 12 lbs of boost because of it. Once we clamped it off, I jumped up to 16 lbs. Maybe others don't have this problem because they've done something different, but I know I had it, and replumbing it back into the Greddy elbow fixed it.

Beast