The RX-7 confirmed to be in the pipeline for 2017---RX-Vision Unveil!!
02-27-13, 08:42 AM
#326
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The point is that where wasn't any market for the GTR until somebody made the GTR.
People sat around on this (and other) forums for a decade talking about how the early 90's Japanese sports cars were too hi tech, or "bloated", and you couldn't sell a Mazda (or whatever) for $35k, yada yada yada.
Then somebody built a technology-rich, "bloated" $85k Japanese supercar, and guess what? It's been over 20 years since the FD came out, and almost 40 years since the FB was a good seller. Times, tastes, and markets change.
That doesn't mean I want Mazda to build it's own GTR. It means build something that kicks *** and isn't like anything else on the market, and you create your market. Messing around trying to build something that's the same as everything else only rotary powered doesn't make sense.
People sat around on this (and other) forums for a decade talking about how the early 90's Japanese sports cars were too hi tech, or "bloated", and you couldn't sell a Mazda (or whatever) for $35k, yada yada yada.
Then somebody built a technology-rich, "bloated" $85k Japanese supercar, and guess what? It's been over 20 years since the FD came out, and almost 40 years since the FB was a good seller. Times, tastes, and markets change.
That doesn't mean I want Mazda to build it's own GTR. It means build something that kicks *** and isn't like anything else on the market, and you create your market. Messing around trying to build something that's the same as everything else only rotary powered doesn't make sense.
Like the FD only with better timing, marketing, build quality and dealer support.
I don't know anyone who doesn't like the sound of a 3 rotor at full tilt. I'm pretty sure most of the fans of GT would agree that the RX8 sounded insanely cool.
Maybe some folks think the miata is a better car but I disagree it's not even a close race in my book and this will only distance it further: 2014 Subaru BRZ STI - Top Speed
02-27-13, 08:58 AM
#327
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2013 Subaru BRZ vs 2012 Mazda Miata: Featherweight Sports Car Faceoff - Popular Mechanics
After reading it which car will you buy and it couldn't be any more complimentary to the mx?
I'll take the better looking, handling, powerful, roomier coupe but I'm also not a girl or an old man.
02-27-13, 06:30 PM
#328
I try to listen to general questions the public asks me about my car. The fact that a vast majority still ask me "has Mazda ever fixed the sealing problems" or "I hear that rotaries blow up a lot" tells me that Mazda has a considerable way to go in overcoming these general misperceptions. They need to field a bullet proof next generation rotary engine design and have 3 to 5 years of solid production numbers with few (if any) engine failures if they ever hope to win the general public over IMO.
Tim that is exactly what I've been saying. Negative perception really hurts. Lets look at the Rx8. Mazda has sold more 8's in it's 1st year than they did the rest of it's life cycle. Now consider this, all the major engine replacements happened to the 2004 models due to not enough oil metering. Mazda did make some improvements to the later models tune but the damage was already done. Plus the US rebuild facility were rebuilding the engines to poor spec. Even though the newer models are much improved, you still have that negative perception floating around from those customers who traded in those 8's who had 2 or 3 engines replaced. There's not nearly enough series 2 Rx8's to tune the tide.
I personally think Mazda will put out a reliable rotary product with the 4th gen. The only thing I'm afraid of are the new/unknown problems they will have with the totaly new larger all aluminum based engine. I expect some **** to hit the fan but hopefully not so much that it can't be cleaned up. The next rotary CAN NOT have a bad 1st year like the renesis did. If that happens, I fear the rotary could seriously die.
02-27-13, 06:41 PM
#329
That was a good article on the BRZ vs miata.
I must say I'm shocked to find out how many people hate on the BRZ. It's hard to compare it to an rx7 because there are three generations of rx7 all of them very different.
The BRZ is exactly like an fc and will most likely evolve into an FD. No it doesn't have a rotary but yes I'll probably buy one because its the car mazda should of made. It's a light weight affordable car with street legal turbo kits and a verity of nice parts already available. It's about time someone built a good compact RWD car.
The rx8 lack of turbo really killed it. The BRZ is said to do very well with a turbo upgrade ,after all it is a Subaru boxer 2liter
I must say I'm shocked to find out how many people hate on the BRZ. It's hard to compare it to an rx7 because there are three generations of rx7 all of them very different.
The BRZ is exactly like an fc and will most likely evolve into an FD. No it doesn't have a rotary but yes I'll probably buy one because its the car mazda should of made. It's a light weight affordable car with street legal turbo kits and a verity of nice parts already available. It's about time someone built a good compact RWD car.
The rx8 lack of turbo really killed it. The BRZ is said to do very well with a turbo upgrade ,after all it is a Subaru boxer 2liter
02-27-13, 10:12 PM
#330
"Now we hear that Subaru is preparing a turbocharged direct-injection version of the horizontally opposed, 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine used in the standard BRZ. This engine will feature a single twin-scroll turbocharger and straight direct-injection developed in-house and not the DI/port-injection system developed in cooperation with Toyota.
This engine could deliver up to 280 HP and 250 lbs-ft of torque, transforming the upcoming BRZ STI into a real competitor in the sports car market. "
This engine could deliver up to 280 HP and 250 lbs-ft of torque, transforming the upcoming BRZ STI into a real competitor in the sports car market. "
02-28-13, 08:59 AM
#331
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That was a good article on the BRZ vs miata.
I must say I'm shocked to find out how many people hate on the BRZ. It's hard to compare it to an rx7 because there are three generations of rx7 all of them very different.
The BRZ is exactly like an fc and will most likely evolve into an FD. No it doesn't have a rotary but yes I'll probably buy one because its the car mazda should of made. It's a light weight affordable car with street legal turbo kits and a verity of nice parts already available. It's about time someone built a good compact RWD car.
The rx8 lack of turbo really killed it. The BRZ is said to do very well with a turbo upgrade ,after all it is a Subaru boxer 2liter
I must say I'm shocked to find out how many people hate on the BRZ. It's hard to compare it to an rx7 because there are three generations of rx7 all of them very different.
The BRZ is exactly like an fc and will most likely evolve into an FD. No it doesn't have a rotary but yes I'll probably buy one because its the car mazda should of made. It's a light weight affordable car with street legal turbo kits and a verity of nice parts already available. It's about time someone built a good compact RWD car.
The rx8 lack of turbo really killed it. The BRZ is said to do very well with a turbo upgrade ,after all it is a Subaru boxer 2liter
"Now we hear that Subaru is preparing a turbocharged direct-injection version of the horizontally opposed, 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine used in the standard BRZ. This engine will feature a single twin-scroll turbocharger and straight direct-injection developed in-house and not the DI/port-injection system developed in cooperation with Toyota.
This engine could deliver up to 280 HP and 250 lbs-ft of torque, transforming the upcoming BRZ STI into a real competitor in the sports car market. "
This engine could deliver up to 280 HP and 250 lbs-ft of torque, transforming the upcoming BRZ STI into a real competitor in the sports car market. "
02-28-13, 05:47 PM
#332
Senior Member
Short(ish) wheelbase and +2 seating results in 55/45 weight distribution
Combination of strut suspension and engine too far forward results in high(ish) hoodline and front wheel arches (relative to FD and S2000).
Power OK for DD, not as much for serious track fun.
What I think Toyota would be genius to do would be to take the FR-S/BRZ platform and make a 2-seat version with the engine/firewall/driver/passenger moved about 20" aft on the same wheelbase, some funky styling and boom: modern Toyota 2000GT! With forced-induction option
Yeah, I know purists would cringe, but I think that would be pretty damn cool.
The FB met that need back in the day when there were not a lot of inexpensive sports cars. Today, the market is swimming in inexpensive sports cars and sports sedans.
There were a LOT more smallish, reasonably lightweight, not hideously expensive rwd sports/sporty cars back in the FB's day: Triumph TR7, TR8, Spitfire; Datsun 280ZX, 200SX; Fiat X1/9, spider; Alfa Romeo Spider, GTV6; BMW 320i; Porsche 924/944; Toyota Celica, Supra (pre-bloat), AE86...
Today we have the Miata, FR-S/BRZ, and, um, er, uh, what else? That's about it
Let's see, Mazda could offer another lightweight inexpensive sports car with a "rotary" engine. That would sure differentiate it. An engine with a bad reputation for reliability. Hmmm. Which light inexpensive sports car would I want? A new Rx7 will have to address the rotary issues head on and have a bullet-proof solution from day one.
Dropping a boatload of money into a new rotary and putting it in a lower-priced sports car sort of automatically means the piston-engined competitors have a pricing or profit advantage, in addition to not having any reliability issues.
Last edited by ZDan; 02-28-13 at 06:03 PM.
02-28-13, 08:53 PM
#333
Senior Member
Moving closer to home, Mazda could make a car similar to the MX-5, with a slightly *longer* wheelbase, with the front wheels shoved forward 6"-10", on a slightly wider track, as a dedicated closed-roof coupe (with all inherent stiffness/weight advantages), NA 2-rotor, optional turbo or 3-rotor, yadda yadda yadda...
Last edited by ZDan; 02-28-13 at 08:56 PM.
02-28-13, 09:00 PM
#334
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Moving closer to home, Mazda could make a car similar to the MX-5, with a slightly *longer* wheelbase, with the front wheels shoved forward 6"-10", on a slightly wider track, as a dedicated closed-roof coupe (with all inherent stiffness/weight advantages), NA 2-rotor, optional turbo or 3-rotor, yadda yadda yadda...
03-01-13, 01:28 PM
#335
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I'm a little late to this, but it'll be interesting to see what Mazda can think up. As for some comments about the 3rd gen I think the FD suffered from the economic climate of its time. Not to mention it's engine wasn't worth rebuilding due to the cost, time and effort for many owners (of that time). Continuing on to today, the environment is a hot topic and the rotary engines struggled to keep with the pace. Looking at Mazda and it's company wide debt load, it cannot be burdened by another "high maintenance" vehicle. I feel that the new 2017 RX (if any) would need to fit their new marketing slogan of SkyActiv, and we can expect a more fuel efficient motor to help meet customer expectation of their idea of the future - lighter body weight and smaller displacement engines. But as Fritz mentioned we will have to wait and see. Let's just hope the body looks good.
03-01-13, 03:22 PM
#337
In pure terms of exterior styling and by judging by what Mazda has been doing for the last few years: I'd say the new RX-7's likehood of being ugly is quite high.
Disclaimer: Before anyone gets all pissy remember looks are purely subjective
Disclaimer: Before anyone gets all pissy remember looks are purely subjective
03-02-13, 08:09 PM
#339
I'm a little late to this, but it'll be interesting to see what Mazda can think up. As for some comments about the 3rd gen I think the FD suffered from the economic climate of its time. Not to mention it's engine wasn't worth rebuilding due to the cost, time and effort for many owners (of that time). Continuing on to today, the environment is a hot topic and the rotary engines struggled to keep with the pace. Looking at Mazda and it's company wide debt load, it cannot be burdened by another "high maintenance" vehicle. I feel that the new 2017 RX (if any) would need to fit their new marketing slogan of SkyActiv, and we can expect a more fuel efficient motor to help meet customer expectation of their idea of the future - lighter body weight and smaller displacement engines. But as Fritz mentioned we will have to wait and see. Let's just hope the body looks good.
Mazda will definitely use the SkyActive branding assuming it continues to be successful. If anything, the positive press and customer experience regarding the Skyactive engines will hopefully lend credibility to the Skyactive rotary and help alleviate some of the rotary fears and bad press of the past. The 16x will be fortunate to be associated with the skyactive sub-brand, again assuming it keeps going well for Mazda. The diesel is going to be awesome.
04-02-13, 04:41 PM
#340
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I agree with MLDoom. I'd expect to see the new Rx-7 incorporating the SkyActiv technology. I imagine Hybrid power transmission (see the new NSX concept) will become more and more prevalent due to the advantages over traditional mechanical transmissions.
04-02-13, 06:48 PM
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I don't know what everyone reads in terms of car magazines. I read a lot of them and only a few I really read are the mainstream R&T-C&D-MT-Automobile type that are dependent on new cars for their livelihood. I find that a lot of them have been saying that the older 90's and early 2000's sports cars are better than the new ones and they cite how the feeling's gone and how they're all the same and on and on. People increasingly don't really like the computerized this and that even though they almost reluctantly note that people achieve better times easier on the track.
So, I am not hopeful that a new Rx7 will be something I will want, but, God, surprise me.
G
So, I am not hopeful that a new Rx7 will be something I will want, but, God, surprise me.
G
My father is dead set on getting a Tesla S, but I cant imagine getting a sports car that isn't loud and exciting. Half the reason that i'm addicted to rotaries is that heavenly sound. Having an electric motored sports car, despite it's advantages, just doesn't sound appealing.
04-03-13, 08:45 PM
#343
Rotary Enthusiast
Like a stripped RX-8 with a supercharger and water injection?
04-04-13, 07:07 AM
#345
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Recently nissan said something about Japanese manufacturers no longer pursuing power but aiming to reduce weight instead.
Nissan Says No To Silvia, Next-Gen Z To Get Smaller Engine, Lower Price, Less Weight | Reviews | Prices | Australian specifications
04-04-13, 09:59 AM
#346
Hey, somebody made the new RX7 I was talking about, it's called a "Lotus Exige S". 345hp supercharged V6, >2600 lbs.
Exige Specifications | Lotus Cars
Tell me Mazda couldn't make a rotary version of this car for $20k less than Lotus. Done and done.
Exige Specifications | Lotus Cars
Tell me Mazda couldn't make a rotary version of this car for $20k less than Lotus. Done and done.
04-04-13, 11:24 AM
#347
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Hey, somebody made the new RX7 I was talking about, it's called a "Lotus Exige S". 345hp supercharged V6, >2600 lbs.
Exige Specifications | Lotus Cars
Tell me Mazda couldn't make a rotary version of this car for $20k less than Lotus. Done and done.
Exige Specifications | Lotus Cars
Tell me Mazda couldn't make a rotary version of this car for $20k less than Lotus. Done and done.
04-04-13, 01:30 PM
#348
mx-5 for a completely arbitrary example.
Recently nissan said something about Japanese manufacturers no longer pursuing power but aiming to reduce weight instead.
Nissan Says No To Silvia, Next-Gen Z To Get Smaller Engine, Lower Price, Less Weight | Reviews | Prices | Australian specifications
Recently nissan said something about Japanese manufacturers no longer pursuing power but aiming to reduce weight instead.
Nissan Says No To Silvia, Next-Gen Z To Get Smaller Engine, Lower Price, Less Weight | Reviews | Prices | Australian specifications
After reading this article, if anything I would expect to see Mazda following Toyota/Subaru just as Nissan suggests they will be doing. From the early 90s the NSX was in a different category in terms of quality and exoticism so I would not expect Mazda to chase the upcoming techo-fest NSX that will not age well anyways. And Mazda certainly won't be chasing the GTR, though they may have been comparable in terms of performance in the 90s they are really totally different animals. That leaves them in a light sports car battle very similar to 15-25 years ago. I would like to see Mazda offer two or more engine choices in the US as they did in 84-85, and 87-91. I just hope Mazda will get into the light sports car game before it's too late. After entering a vehicle into the market, they can give it the "R" treatment or "Mazdaspeed" it since that probably has bore notoriety, or leave it up to the aftermarket. Mazda just don't sit this one out. It's the late 70's all over again.
04-04-13, 01:33 PM
#349
Hey, somebody made the new RX7 I was talking about, it's called a "Lotus Exige S". 345hp supercharged V6, >2600 lbs.
Exige Specifications | Lotus Cars
Tell me Mazda couldn't make a rotary version of this car for $20k less than Lotus. Done and done.
Exige Specifications | Lotus Cars
Tell me Mazda couldn't make a rotary version of this car for $20k less than Lotus. Done and done.
