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How to value your FD and why today it's difficult to sell for 25k or more

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How to value your FD and why today it's difficult to sell for 25k or more

Old 03-11-17, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S View Post
^Most of my spare interior pieces I'm hanging onto (like my new in box '93 finish map pocket) because they're impossible to find in near or near new shape nowadays......


Last edited by TomU; 03-11-17 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 03-12-17, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by TomU View Post
LOL............FD guys and gals are an eccentric group of folks!
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Old 03-12-17, 08:35 PM
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Fritz,

Have you considered what would happen to the price of a FD If reliability was not a factor, I have a feeling people are leery into getting a FD because of reliability issues. If somehow people could be convinced that these cars are just as reliable as other cars in its "class" I have a feeling that demand would go up thus making is easier to get your asking price.

Also If Mazda releases another RX car I really think demand will go up. Looking at other cars from the 90s or heck even 80s and 70s you can see that the older version demand goes up thus increasing asking price.
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Old 03-12-17, 10:25 PM
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"Reliability issues" don't seem to prevent them from collecting other finicky and expensive cars. Most rx7 reliability issues stem from user error. People make common mistakes in modifying these cars over and over and over again.
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Old 03-13-17, 12:44 AM
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BC Brits And Their Old Cars

There is a British Magazine called Practical Classics, which largely focuses on restoration of 1960s and 1970s British cars; A class of cars not much known for reliability. They have studies showing the DIY restoration industry is a GBP 5 billion industry in Britain. So unreliability seems to be the driver (literally) for a very large group of enthusiasts there.


Certainly a large portion of our crowd enjoy tooling around with their rotaries. I also hear a strong attraction to the "feel" of driving a rotary and the particular sound (the less muffling the better!)


Certainly RHD are providing a gateway into the cars for many people in Western Canada. We are seeing a lot fewer being brought into Canada by dealers, and yet cars are popping up all over the place. This may be a result of persons gaining more confidence to be directly involved in arranging the purchase and import of cars independent from local dealers.



There is also a strongly growing acceptance of a standard set of increasingly proven "reliability mods"; Such mods can then be basis for a lower cost scaling up of performance (but adding, say, a better intercooler and methanol injection).

Last edited by Redbul; 03-13-17 at 12:49 AM.
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Old 03-13-17, 09:02 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Moe Greene View Post
Have you considered what would happen to the price of a FD If reliability was not a factor, I have a feeling people are leery into getting a FD because of reliability issues.
We buy V8 cars to fix the issue.
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Old 03-13-17, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Moe Greene View Post
Fritz,

Have you considered what would happen to the price of a FD If reliability was not a factor, I have a feeling people are leery into getting a FD because of reliability issues. If somehow people could be convinced that these cars are just as reliable as other cars in its "class" I have a feeling that demand would go up thus making is easier to get your asking price.

Also If Mazda releases another RX car I really think demand will go up. Looking at other cars from the 90s or heck even 80s and 70s you can see that the older version demand goes up thus increasing asking price.
LOL.....funny you mention this. A forum member just stopped by this weekend to check out my FDs and decided not to get one at all because I scared him off with talk of what is likely to go wrong. I'm just too honest.

As I mentioned in this thread from the beginning if you can get 100k miles out of this engine you've done great. If you can get 100k out of the turbos and trans you've done great etc...etc... So if you are buying this car thinking you'll have no issues you are not understanding the type of car you are buying. It's a high performance sports car not a honda civic. If you want a reliable sports car get an NSX, GT3, etc.... and you'll have much better luck over all. That said the FD is actually a fairly reliable inexpensive turbo sports car so it's always give and take.

Again if the engine goes it's 4500 (for a new block) plus your core, good used trans is typically 750, rebuild 1250 etc... or in other words for the level of performance the cost of maintaining it is ridiculously inexpensive. A new factory engine for a 997.2 GT3 is 72k LOL

Bottomline: the FD is the most fun sports car for the money on this planet. Nothing comes close

I'm glad the dude changed his mind and I'm now upping the price to 30k or taking it off the market again LOL

Originally Posted by Redbul View Post
There is a British Magazine called Practical Classics, which largely focuses on restoration of 1960s and 1970s British cars; A class of cars not much known for reliability. They have studies showing the DIY restoration industry is a GBP 5 billion industry in Britain. So unreliability seems to be the driver (literally) for a very large group of enthusiasts there.


Certainly a large portion of our crowd enjoy tooling around with their rotaries. I also hear a strong attraction to the "feel" of driving a rotary and the particular sound (the less muffling the better!)


Certainly RHD are providing a gateway into the cars for many people in Western Canada. We are seeing a lot fewer being brought into Canada by dealers, and yet cars are popping up all over the place. This may be a result of persons gaining more confidence to be directly involved in arranging the purchase and import of cars independent from local dealers.



There is also a strongly growing acceptance of a standard set of increasingly proven "reliability mods"; Such mods can then be basis for a lower cost scaling up of performance (but adding, say, a better intercooler and methanol injection).
Exactly. If you know this car inside and out you can easily modify it to be both simple and reliable. Try making any 2017 car simple.

The SSM base model I have for sale is about as simple as it gets without going single turbo (there are lots of issues with singles though) but I prefer sequential twins on the street. I've driven it 13k trouble free miles and counting and I've loved every mile of it It weighs 2600 pounds or less and has 300 rwhp. That ladies and gentlemen are the beginning ingredients of a fun sports car. Add in race car susp or incredible chassis setup and the FD is simply a super cool car

Not done yet Add in the sequential turbo feel, the rotary vibe/sound/feel and by that I mean the unique smooth power delivery, unique cool bumble bee sound with back fires and flames added on top etc..., the power delivery or the sensation of being pulled hard and gently released/shift, not pushed hard into a wall, cough cough LSX. To me it's the greatest car ever built

Last edited by Fritz Flynn; 03-13-17 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 03-13-17, 11:34 AM
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Small sidebar on values - read an article a few weeks ago about C5 (I think it was C5) Corvettes. Many old guys bought them new, garage kept, waxed once a month, drove it to C&C on nice days, low mileage, etc. Time moves on and they decide to get a brand new Corvette, and of course the dealer lowballs them on the tradein on the old car.

So they decide to sell it themselves and ask a top dollar price - it's worth it! This car has been babied, giant folder of receipts, low mileage, etc. etc. Problem is there's a LOT of old guys out there trying to do the same thing, their prices are too high for the market, and the cars are just sitting there.

Sidebar done.

It will be interesting to see what the influx of RHD cars in the US will do to values. From what I've gathered (please correct me!) the RHD invasion of Canada just meant a lot of cheap RHD cars. They're for the kids and the LHD cars are still holding value.

Driving RHD is fun for all of 15 minutes.

Dale
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Old 03-13-17, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by DaleClark View Post
Driving RHD is fun for all of 15 minutes.

Dale
Depends on the owner, I grew up driving RHD and love them, regardless of what side of the road I am on.....I actually own a LHD FB and a RHD FD and I have no issues swapping between them.

I do agree that LHD will hold their value. the majority of people will want the steering wheel on the "correct" side. The giant perk of RHD is getting a car that is much newer....a 2002 vs 1995.....those 7 years can mean a lot for overall condition of the car.

Tom
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Old 03-13-17, 01:20 PM
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Just read through thread. I happen to come accross a couple FD's I would think are priced well and in good shape. I am not really in the market, but if I was these look pretty good shape to me without seeing them. One is rotary for 17k and the other is V8 for 24k.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/cto/6030943049.html

https://richmond.craigslist.org/cto/6030966368.html

Last edited by smikels; 03-13-17 at 01:21 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 03-13-17, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TomSmy View Post
Depends on the owner, I grew up driving RHD and love them, regardless of what side of the road I am on.....I actually own a LHD FB and a RHD FD and I have no issues swapping between them.

I do agree that LHD will hold their value. the majority of people will want the steering wheel on the "correct" side. The giant perk of RHD is getting a car that is much newer....a 2002 vs 1995.....those 7 years can mean a lot for overall condition of the car.

Tom
Love the idea of getting a super low mileage 2002 RHD FD to swap parts over to an LHD. Driving one though, no thanks!
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Old 03-13-17, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by smikels View Post
Just read through thread. I happen to come accross a couple FD's I would think are priced well and in good shape. I am not really in the market, but if I was these look pretty good shape to me without seeing them. One is rotary for 17k and the other is V8 for 24k.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/cto/6030943049.html

https://richmond.craigslist.org/cto/6030966368.html
Both look like decent deals but also likely project cars.
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Old 03-13-17, 04:08 PM
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BC RHD are Exhausting

Sitting nearly on top of the exhaust system adds another dimension to the feel of an RHD RX7 no doubt. Once you have driven for some time, the location of the steering becomes less noticeable and the thrill of driving an RX7 remains.


Early indications are that 92s are being picked off at high prices at auction in Japan and put up for sale in the US at LHD prices even before arriving in the US. Time will tell if this strategy works, but would point to a different expectations than in Canada.


It seems that Canada will continue to have an advantage to pick off low cost FD that are some years away from US market eligible.

Last edited by Redbul; 03-13-17 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 03-13-17, 04:24 PM
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In Norway we sort of have 3 price tiers for FDs:

1st - EU cars: Imported from Europe, was never sold here. 30k+ USD
2nd - US cars: Imported from the US. From 15k USD and upwards.
3rd - JDM cars with plates: Really hard to get them on plates now, from 11k upwards.
(4th - JDM cars without plates: Track cars only, 3.5k USD upwards)

Thre reasoning is that the EU car is "all" options from the R1 and Touring. It has everything. It is also rare, with only 1152 sold. Around 211 of them are 94/95 with dual airbags.
US cars are close, but some have registration limits to "must be stock". I think there are just as many US as EU cars in Norway. Some with limits, som without.
JDM is at the bottom since they are cheap here, and cheap elsewhere, both because of RHD and specs.
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Old 03-13-17, 07:18 PM
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I am one of those who purchased a mint stock FD for >25k. Purchased 2 yrs ago. Im not a collector. Just a loyal Mazda owner and I finally have the financial means to buy my dream cars. It is in impeccable condition and has been completely reliable. Hope to keep it a long time.
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Old 03-13-17, 08:42 PM
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Right there with ya, Balefire. Bought mine for $25k with 13,000 miles on it last year. Keeping the miles low and the car stock.

So there are people out there willing to shell out cash for these cars, but as Fritz says, those are for the ultra-low mileage ones. I would've spent more like $18k for something with 60,000 to 80,000 miles on it and a rebuilt engine.
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Old 03-13-17, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Fritz Flynn View Post
Love the idea of getting a super low mileage 2002 RHD FD to swap parts over to an LHD. Driving one though, no thanks!
Exactly how I feel about it. I'd even swap dashes and drill a hole for the steering gear if I could convert some clean chassis 2002 FD into a LHD. Screw RHD in a LHD world.
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Old 03-13-17, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by eslai View Post
I would've spent more like $18k for something with 60,000 to 80,000 miles on it and a rebuilt engine.
LoL. You would've found a lot of automatics, scratched up plastics, tan door panels, sunroofs, bose systems, and questionable modifications for $18k rebuilt.
The one listed earlier was a good example of that price range: https://richmond.craigslist.org/cto/6030943049.html

Last edited by Narfle; 03-13-17 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 03-14-17, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by DaleClark View Post
It will be interesting to see what the influx of RHD cars in the US will do to values. From what I've gathered (please correct me!) the RHD invasion of Canada just meant a lot of cheap RHD cars. They're for the kids and the LHD cars are still holding value.

Driving RHD is fun for all of 15 minutes.

Dale
RHD are essentially always worth less here. I think it's mostly due to the "questionable history" associated with them.
By that I mean, for every imported FD with a documented history (no accidents, proper maintenance, low mileage, well kept, etc) like mine, there are 20 brought it that were salvage-title (or close to it) in Japan before being brought here.
People lack confidence in them, which is fair imho

Enjoyment wise, it's the same between a well-sorted RHD and an equally well-sorted LHD. I never hit the drive-thru anyway
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Old 03-14-17, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by DaleClark View Post
Small sidebar on values - read an article a few weeks ago about C5 (I think it was C5) Corvettes. Many old guys bought them new, garage kept, waxed once a month, drove it to C&C on nice days, low mileage, etc. Time moves on and they decide to get a brand new Corvette, and of course the dealer lowballs them on the tradein on the old car.

So they decide to sell it themselves and ask a top dollar price - it's worth it! This car has been babied, giant folder of receipts, low mileage, etc. etc. Problem is there's a LOT of old guys out there trying to do the same thing, their prices are too high for the market, and the cars are just sitting there.

Sidebar done.

It will be interesting to see what the influx of RHD cars in the US will do to values. From what I've gathered (please correct me!) the RHD invasion of Canada just meant a lot of cheap RHD cars. They're for the kids and the LHD cars are still holding value.

Driving RHD is fun for all of 15 minutes.

Dale
LOL

If only there was STILL a group of old guys with FDs

I'd pay 30k for an FD with 10k miles at this time. Broken record: In 5 years I may pay 30k for one with 30k miles but the market isn't there yet because I can still buy a decent FD for 15 to 20k. And like a broken record I'll keep repeating the drive line is cheap, interior relatively cheap, paint cheap (small car) and a lot of these low mileage cars will need an engine in the next 10 years no matter how low the mileage is (rust never sleeps). I'd pay 5k more for an FD with basic mods and a fresh motor built by a good shop. Even better find me a deal on an FD with a new motor

You may say where are all these decent FDs. Well if this one is still available (won't be for long): Cars for Sale: Used 1994 Mazda RX-7 Turbo for sale in Gainesville, GA 30501: Hatchback Details - 424192926 - Autotrader

If I was in the market I'd lowball this guy or leave an offer. I was considering it a while ago but ended up getting another GT3. Cars for Sale: Used 1993 Mazda RX-7 Turbo for sale in Sturgeon Bay, WI 54235: Coupe Details - 412115075 - Autotrader

Almost bought this one/smoking deal with all the extra parts/built motor etc....: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...turbo-1103558/

My point is as long as there are cars like the above 3 there is no way I'd begin to consider paying 30k for an FD UNLESS the miles were super low (10k and under), the compression was excellent, paint/interior/etc.... MINT!

Hell I'd take my SSM base for 30k before buying the SSM R2 for 36k. 20k miles isn't as important to me as 10k plus invested in the right mods already on the car etc....
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Old 03-14-17, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Fritz Flynn View Post
Hell I'd take my SSM base for 30k before buying the SSM R2 for 36k. 20k miles isn't as important to me as 10k plus invested in the right mods already on the car etc....
The main reason I'd take your car over that SSM r2 (aside from the price delta), is the feeling of guilt from molesting a pristine car that ought to be left alone. It bugs me slightly on my 94 base, but at least it's MBM and not an R-car.
With your nicely upgraded 93, the fun is almost guilt free. You can get most/all the 94+ benefits over time, like your 94 interior
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Old 03-14-17, 03:57 PM
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RHD VS LHD is only a matter of getting used to it ... for me feels very awkward driving a LHD fd while here in the states. i have driven LHD vehicles back home, which is a RHD system and i have driven RHD here in the US that is LHD system obviously ... the only small issue is overtaking

speaking of the value, I would generally agree that modified cars value tend to go down the drain.. the ones that are properly modified rarely go on sale and yet again who knows what was done to it.

Re-amemiya was selling a project car (a pretty basic project car, still a street car ) that it was a 56sec tsukuba car for 75k and from what i heard the car sold weeks later.
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Old 03-14-17, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by R-R-Rx7 View Post
RHD VS LHD is only a matter of getting used to it ... for me feels very awkward driving a LHD fd while here in the states. i have driven LHD vehicles back home, which is a RHD system and i have driven RHD here in the US that is LHD system obviously ... the only small issue is overtaking

speaking of the value, I would generally agree that modified cars value tend to go down the drain.. the ones that are properly modified rarely go on sale and yet again who knows what was done to it.

Re-amemiya was selling a project car (a pretty basic project car, still a street car ) that it was a 56sec tsukuba car for 75k and from what i heard the car sold weeks later.
It's a safety concern, too.
You don't want to be on the same side of the car as oncoming traffic.
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Old 03-14-17, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Narfle View Post
The main reason I'd take your car over that SSM r2 (aside from the price delta), is the feeling of guilt from molesting a pristine car that ought to be left alone. It bugs me slightly on my 94 base, but at least it's MBM and not an R-car.
With your nicely upgraded 93, the fun is almost guilt free. You can get most/all the 94+ benefits over time, like your 94 interior
Yep the only reason to pay that kind a premium is if you leave it alone and put it on a shelf.

I've never understood the fun in that
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Old 03-14-17, 04:18 PM
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Re-amemiya was selling a project car (a pretty basic project car, still a street car ) that it was a 56sec tsukuba car for 75k and from what i heard the car sold weeks later.

1)
A basic project car doesn't do 56sec on Tsukuba circuit.

Most project FDs on this forum probably would have a really hard time improving the stock ('99 spec) FD Tsukuba record of 1:06.

The actual track FDs here yes, most the project or tuner FDs probably no.

I don't know if there is a production car under 1:00 on Tsukuba yet.

I don't think there is a tuner shops GTR that is under 1:00 on Tsukuba yet, but maybe recently they have broken through.

Radical SR4 1.2 was fastest production car at 1:00 back when this list was made.

Tsukuba lap times - FastestLaps.com

2)
That RE Amemiya hype. Now that is a perfect example of what I mean by being able to sell a car for more because of the hype or legend or owner rather than the car itself.
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