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Very interesting Fritz, I agree with all your points although I personally feel VR on tan is marginally less desirable than MB.
I've never been in a 94+ and had no clue that the build quality was that much better, I just assumed it was the trim panels changing. I knew the doors sounded different as well.
Very interesting Fritz, I agree with all your points although I personally feel VR on tan is marginally less desirable than MB.
I've never been in a 94+ and had no clue that the build quality was that much better, I just assumed it was the trim panels changing. I knew the doors sounded different as well.
Yep that's a tough call for sure. Both look awful when the paint starts to fade and both look incredible with good paint. I love all the colors but red and blue overall may be my favorites LOL. I'm a little contrarian though so it may just be I like to go against the tide. One thing I'm 100 percent sure of though is that I love a quick look at CYM but don't like living with it LOL. I've owned too many of them and they never grew on me.
The 94 cars are far and I mean FAR superior to 93. I've dissected a lot of FDs
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; 02-15-19 at 10:05 AM.
Reason: correction
Did they do it warm? RPMs are a little low. Pulses are even. Probably needs to be driven. I'm sure it has lots of life left, and is not "at risk"
The soft seals and springs are probably long in the tooth, after 25yrs. You wouldn't be wrong to refresh the engine. If you replaced it, that block will make a really nice rebuild core for someone.
Did they do it warm? RPMs are a little low. Pulses are even. Probably needs to be driven. I'm sure it has lots of life left, and is not "at risk"
The soft seals and springs are probably long in the tooth, after 25yrs. You wouldn't be wrong to refresh the engine. If you replaced it, that block will make a really nice rebuild core for someone.
Yep
RPMs may be a little low but I'd expect better then 96 psi on the low side. I think normal cranking speed is 250.
I'd expect 7s or higher or say 105 plus #s from this car. But I'll keep repeating it. Compression isn't the end all be all BAT on lookers seem to think it is. This car will still sell for 30k plus IMO.
Just checked the auction and the peanut gallery loves to talk about compression.
I can see worrying about compression if you are not able to view/test drive the car BUT if it starts hot, runs smooth when hot (has a smooth idle at 750 and below with no vibration or rocking) you have good compression in your rotary engine car. There's no way I'm buying any of these cars on BAT without a long conversation with the owner followed up with a PPI that may or may not include a compression test.
I'd care more about the above then whatever compression test results came back. Also you need to consider if the testers held the gas pedal down, pulled both plugs at once, have a bad tester/leaky tester, etc...etc...
Again the things to worry about regarding engine health: does it idle like a rock at 700 to 750 when beaten on for 20 minutes during the test drive. Next shut it off for 5 minutes and restart. Does it fire right up or take a little more cranking. A little more and compression may be a little low or a lot more and a compression test is in order. Won't start it probably needs a new engine and you renegotiate. If it's a low mileage car and I'm paying close to retail I want a 5k discount LOL.
Lastly bring a boost gauge and 15 feet of hose attach it to the UIM. Go for ride and see what's what. The majority of these 25 year old low mileage FDs likely have boost issues. The vacuum will also tell you a lot about the engine health. If above 15 then it's probably healthy if not you could have issues. That said if it's above 15 and idling at 1000 well that's a problem. These cars should idle at 750 max once warmed up and the engine should be quiet and smooth.
I agree Fritz. If the car drives well, cold and hot starts well, and pulls good vacuum, then that's all that matters. The bickering over compression numbers just deters prospective new-comers to an FD. I'm sure there's a ton of piston motor cars that have "borderline spec" compression, but the buyers and sellers dont know or care because the car drives fine. But when a rotary pops up, compression is always the forefront of the conversation.
As far as how well these BaT cars boost: well my opinion is that you need to assume any car that is mostly original needs a vac job and solenoid replacement (as I've pointed out, parts are like $200 for all the OEM sequential switching solenoids). That was one of the first things after I got my car.
No v8 swap pricing? Well sorted ones seem to all be $30, right?
I dont know about this 94 OEM that sold, I just watched it sell right behind another car I own. Looked like the bumper was warped as per usual. Final hammer $32k + $3200 auction house fees.
In my minds eye, the more buyers that see $25k+ FDs over and over in long sales, the better it is for everyone. (Also LOVE seeing totaled FD’s:-)
The seller is in California and made a big mistake selling in February, unless he really needed it gone now. When I lived in NC I didn't really understand how half the country goes into hibernation during winter regarding car things. If you live in Chicago, New York, Minneapolis, Chicago, or anywhere in flyover country there isn't a good logistical way to get the car home from California. The roads are impassible if you try do a long road trip (ice and snow through the mountains). There may be a pile of snow in your street... you can't even drive the car into your garage if somebody ships it from across the country and drops it off at the end of the block, because it doesn't have winter tires. There's salt everywhere.
The pool of potential buyers is much lower if you sell in February. Not only that, a lot of people are just now getting around to filing their taxes and likely aren't ready to make a big purchase (haven't gotten their return, or maybe even owe money). This sale isn't a good indicator of market demand. Half the market is dormant until at least April.
The guy selling this car made a mistake doing it in February. It is logistically very difficult to buy a sports car for half the country, due to snow and salt on the ground. You can't even get the car into your driveway if it has summer tires and there's ice on your street. There's a reason why peak sports car season starts in May. You may have ice in April in a lot of places. I didn't understand this until I moved to the Midwest.
For that reason I don't think you can draw a broad conclusion on the market. Some enthusiast in say the Chicago area isn't thinking about buying an FD when it's 10 degrees out and snowing twice a week.
^That one is likely sold or off the market. Tried to contact the seller via the ad 2x, no response, even though I made it clear I have cash to blow and am a quick road trip away.
Originally Posted by jsesq
Crazy! The Bring a Trailer car just sold for $26,500! I guess all the confusion about the compression results must have scared everyone away!
This was a great deal if you live on the west coast and can drive the car home. I may be a bit more objective and less enthusiastic about FDs than you guys, but I couldn't see myself spending more than ~$30K for this particular example. The compression results didn't bother me - they were typical for a <50K mile FD, but when you add in the 5% BaT buyers fee, and shipping cost from the west coast (~$2.2K enclosed, $1.2K open trailer) this one would have cost me about $30K for an FD that has a sunroof (prefer R1/R2s or base) and isn't my favorite color combo. Given it's February, and cross country shipping on an open trailer would have salted & chipped the crap out of it, enclosed shipping is the only smart choice.
Originally Posted by Fritz Flynn
The market may also be cooling a bit? Whoever bought the other one is probably really upset LOL
Tough to say but that was one of the best deals yet on BAT.
Market maybe cooling a bit, but I think it had more to do with poor timing (Feb) which results in a smaller potential market for this guy. Basically you're shipping thru snow/ice season, so you're looking at more expensive enclosed shipping unless you're a local buyer.
The guy selling this car made a mistake doing it in February. It is logistically very difficult to buy a sports car for half the country, due to snow and salt on the ground. You can't even get the car into your driveway if it has summer tires and there's ice on your street. There's a reason why peak sports car season starts in May. You may have ice in April in a lot of places. I didn't understand this until I moved to the Midwest.
For that reason I don't think you can draw a broad conclusion on the market. Some enthusiast in say the Chicago area isn't thinking about buying an FD when it's 10 degrees out and snowing twice a week.
Color is likely a bigger difference than time of year but clearly this car was a good deal.
^That one is likely sold or off the market. Tried to contact the seller via the ad 2x, no response, even though I made it clear I have cash to blow and am a quick road trip away.
This was a great deal if you live on the west coast and can drive the car home. I may be a bit more objective and less enthusiastic about FDs than you guys, but I couldn't see myself spending more than ~$30K for this particular example. The compression results didn't bother me - they were typical for a <50K mile FD, but when you add in the 5% BaT buyers fee, and shipping cost from the west coast (~$2.2K enclosed, $1.2K open trailer) this one would have cost me about $30K for an FD that has a sunroof (prefer R1/R2s or base) and isn't my favorite color combo. Given it's February, and cross country shipping on an open trailer would have salted & chipped the crap out of it, enclosed shipping is the only smart choice.
Market maybe cooling a bit, but I think it had more to do with poor timing (Feb) which results in a smaller potential market for this guy. Basically you're shipping thru snow/ice season, so you're looking at more expensive enclosed shipping unless you're a local buyer.
I hear you. I'm as enthusiastic as they come and I also wouldn't spend 26k much less 30 for this particular FD. If and when I buy another low mileage clean car it will be a 94/95 base/r2 and have very low mileage. I won't be picky about the color just condition and mileage. That said I also already own some nice ones so clearly not very motivated at this time.
If I didn't own an FD and wanted one I'd buy the best one I could find asap because I still believe this market is just starting to take off.
Man that last one was a weak auction. What was it, 3 bids Total!? As already stated, wrong time to sell, and wrong color. MB/tan strikes again. That was a super clean well-presented '95 though.
This thread. Crazy long. I love it!
Hey guys!
I fell outta here for awhile. Some worthless piece of **** was trying to bring me down when I was looking for my first FD.
Negativity isn't my game. . I'm glad to recently be back and seeing positive stuff here!
Soon I hope to be looking for my second FD!
MB BABY!
Hello again to everyone!
Man that last one was a weak auction. What was it, 3 bids Total!? As already stated, wrong time to sell, and wrong color. MB/tan strikes again. That was a super clean well-presented '95 though.
YEP
It went to 26 in a hurry which I'm sure cut through the BS bidders.
Most of the good deals I recall on BAT have been MB cars which I think also explains the low bidding. I'd love a 95 base mb.
I agree, totally crazy. I also believe we will see and FD sell for 75k in the next 2 years which will be equally insane.
Originally Posted by Aristo
This makes a pretty good apples-to-apples low mileage MKIV vs. low mileage FD price comparison, down to the color. It seems that at these mileage/condition levels, an original 6-speed Supra is worth about 2 1/2 times what an FD is.
YEP perfect comparison. FD sold for 49k and supra for 121 or approx 2.5 times. I think the FD will have gained substantial ground by 2025, OR NOT....lol..... clearly my view of the Supra doesn't align with the market. I have love for the supra, the 300 ZX and the FD but the FD is the clear winner in looks, performance and drive/vibe. Big looser though in reliability and overall build quality.
Originally Posted by djseven
Nah, just ask the experts on here. The FD is basically worth the same as Supras... LOL
Fritz...thanks for your insight, interested reading! I've had a 93 base for 24 years, stolen/recovery, which gave it a rebuild title here in Florida. I bought the car because I knew it's history, with 32k miles, never hit, just missing some parts. It's up to 78k miles now. I've kept it basically stock, I did all the R1 mods with Mazda parts, kept the base seats, had them red stitched to match the red stitched console/shift boot/E brake. 3M Carbon wrapped all the interior plastics. Flawless expensive red re-paint. Up grades are the Koyo radiator, the Pettit AST, silicone hoses, stainless brake lines, 18" wheels, Eibach springs, RB dual tip exhaust/down pipe, FC Commander. I've restored a lot of cars, this one I kept because it's just about as perfect as it gets, meticulous maintenance, runs perfect. You mentioned the 94 model, what did Mazda change from the 93's, I know the interior plastics were changed, what else was improved, and what do you think my '93 would sell for? 6 months ago I bought a 2007 Honda S2000 for a DD. The S2000 is another incredible car, and easy to work on!
A friend 4 months ago in Arcadia Florida called me and said a dealer had a '93 R1 33k miles....asking 27k for it....I told my friend, offer 24k.....bargain ....but get it! He got it for 25k.....a clean Florida car, he got a good deal...I wish I could have bought it!
02-15-19, 09:59 AM
