My blown engine a part (with pics) @ KD Rotary... Interesting Read
12-13-01, 04:14 PM
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My blown engine apart (with pics) @ KD Rotary... Interesting Read
Hi,
Everyone I wanted to share my experiences with everyone here about my engine that is now at KD rotary getting rebuilt. Let me give you some background. I bought this car with the blown motor, the motor blew up because a water seal let go inside the engine. This engine had only been in the car for about 20K miles, If that long. Here is Dave's response to me about the condition of the engine after tear down. I hope this helps people.
So the question that I have to ask is... do I go with the new rotor housing or the 18K mile one?
Here are some pictures of the engine
Sorry about the size of the post, I thought that you guys would be interested. I will post more pictures in a moment.
Everyone I wanted to share my experiences with everyone here about my engine that is now at KD rotary getting rebuilt. Let me give you some background. I bought this car with the blown motor, the motor blew up because a water seal let go inside the engine. This engine had only been in the car for about 20K miles, If that long. Here is Dave's response to me about the condition of the engine after tear down. I hope this helps people.
Hey Matt...no problem with the flywheel..but we have several other concerns...and we need to know what ya want to do...the trans is no issue...though I am still waiting on two brgs...but will be under budget...about $700-750 for the trans...the motor is another issue..this engine is actuall a atkins rebuild at one time...I have sent pictures of the problem areas...but here is a list
1. the primary injectors were installed incorectly...no spacer plate ..so they crushed the injecotr air divertors..that are mounted in the block....they cost about $24 each times 2..$50..(pics sent)
2.the is a turbo control solenoid that was installed incorrectly and broken...so someone glued it...(pis sent)..$78 for the solenoid
3.the big issue was the frt rotor housing...for wear internally it was beautiful...but once cleaned up we found the castings were totally shot right where the coolant seals mate to it. (pics sent also)..the rear rotor housing checked out perfect..but the frt looks like a bad casting from the factory and it is what caused the original coolant seal failure(pics sent)..the biggest issue is a new rotor housing is $681...we have a frt housing in stock that has 18K on it I will let go for $250....look over the pics and let me know..but if you add everything to gether for the motor with the used housing/flywheel/solenoid/baskets/internal parts and porting/labor it brings the engine bill alone to $3582.49....big ouch...look at the pics and let me know..motor is ported/ready to go back together....sorry about all this bad news...dave@KDR
1. the primary injectors were installed incorectly...no spacer plate ..so they crushed the injecotr air divertors..that are mounted in the block....they cost about $24 each times 2..$50..(pics sent)
2.the is a turbo control solenoid that was installed incorrectly and broken...so someone glued it...(pis sent)..$78 for the solenoid
3.the big issue was the frt rotor housing...for wear internally it was beautiful...but once cleaned up we found the castings were totally shot right where the coolant seals mate to it. (pics sent also)..the rear rotor housing checked out perfect..but the frt looks like a bad casting from the factory and it is what caused the original coolant seal failure(pics sent)..the biggest issue is a new rotor housing is $681...we have a frt housing in stock that has 18K on it I will let go for $250....look over the pics and let me know..but if you add everything to gether for the motor with the used housing/flywheel/solenoid/baskets/internal parts and porting/labor it brings the engine bill alone to $3582.49....big ouch...look at the pics and let me know..motor is ported/ready to go back together....sorry about all this bad news...dave@KDR
Here are some pictures of the engine
Sorry about the size of the post, I thought that you guys would be interested. I will post more pictures in a moment.
Last edited by m_snoby; 12-13-01 at 04:20 PM.
12-13-01, 05:38 PM
#5
Very good pics/post.
I'm wondering about what Dave said. IIRC he said that the castings were bad originally, it looks to me like the car didn't have much anti-freeze in it, and the issue was corrsion not casting quality.
I know Dave is very well respected, I'm wondering what he'd say about bad castings vs. no anti-freeze issue?
Rotor housings are cheaper if you join Mazdacomp!
Jeff
I'm wondering about what Dave said. IIRC he said that the castings were bad originally, it looks to me like the car didn't have much anti-freeze in it, and the issue was corrsion not casting quality.
I know Dave is very well respected, I'm wondering what he'd say about bad castings vs. no anti-freeze issue?
Rotor housings are cheaper if you join Mazdacomp!
Jeff
12-13-01, 05:44 PM
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Yeah, I don't know. I think it was a shitty original rebuild to begin with. Honestly. Speaking of Mazda Comp, do they have a website, I'm looking at clutches right now and I would love to see what they have available.
TIA
TIA
12-13-01, 06:00 PM
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wow, look at all that corrosion around the cooling passages...someone never bother to change the coolant
this car is all about PM, I'm tellin ya, you MUST stay on top of it or your car will do downhill quick...regular fluid and filter changes are priority #1
this car is all about PM, I'm tellin ya, you MUST stay on top of it or your car will do downhill quick...regular fluid and filter changes are priority #1
12-13-01, 06:06 PM
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Yeah, I'd have to go against the poor casting diagnosis. At least from those pictures, it looks like extensive corrosion. Can anyone explain why a poor casting might have done that to the housing?
Clint Fralick
Struggly@hotmail.com
Clint Fralick
Struggly@hotmail.com
12-13-01, 08:09 PM
#10
www.silverbulletrx7.com
Corrosion like this would take years and years no matter how bad the coolant was. I don't care if they took coolant from a 79 Buick that was sitting in a junk yard for ten years and put it in this car, 20K miles would not result in this much corrosion. It was most likely a bad casting as Dave said. A bad casting means the metal they used might have had air bubbles in it or they simply didn't use enough metal. Or maybe even the improber blend of metals if these things aren't 100% aluminum. As for which housing to use you are already using one used one so why not go with a second. Dave is a great guy so if he says the housing is ok to use I'm sure it is.
12-13-01, 08:19 PM
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I asked Dave about the condition of the used rotor housing that he was selling and he told me the same thing that you just did... (boy your smart) and it makes perfect sense
So I'm going to go with the used rotor housing, it will pretty much match the rear rotor housing anyways.
Dave's also rebuilding the transmission. I will assume that he is replacing the pilot bearing. ??????
the rotor housing we have micrometers out .005 out which is as good as a new one...side to side wear...my honest opinion is it is alwaays better to start new,,,BUT the one rotor housing in your engine that is good specs out the same as the used one in stock...so for me I would go used...I do not feel you are being ****...I think ya just want it done the best way which I understand..my feeling is that there is no benefit for wear or fit and finish either way...and the motor will be as reliable either way...I hope this helps in some form...let me know if any questions...thanks a mill...dave@KDR
Dave's also rebuilding the transmission. I will assume that he is replacing the pilot bearing. ??????
12-14-01, 08:10 AM
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SOME ENGINE FACTS:
I have taken apart 3 new Mazda rebuilds within the last year. These were being used to rebuild as a ported engines. The cooling passages all were filled with very rusty water. The previous one had very bad corrosion with one rotor housing being unsafe. That buyer/owner is currently suing Mazda now over this issue.
It appears that after rebuilding, Mazda, fills the cooling system with plain tap water for their run-in test. Even though the engine is drained, much water remains inside. Then the engines sit somewhere for some period of time. This leads to internal rusting/corrosion. Iron side housings next to aluminum rotor housings with normal tap water creates electric currents. This corrodes the metals.
I left my piece of crap Hayes rebuild sit on the garage floor for about 4 months after being pulled and replaced with my own rebuild. When I finally tore it apart, the insides were still wet with the antifreeze mixture, but there was no rust or corrosion.
I have taken apart 3 new Mazda rebuilds within the last year. These were being used to rebuild as a ported engines. The cooling passages all were filled with very rusty water. The previous one had very bad corrosion with one rotor housing being unsafe. That buyer/owner is currently suing Mazda now over this issue.
It appears that after rebuilding, Mazda, fills the cooling system with plain tap water for their run-in test. Even though the engine is drained, much water remains inside. Then the engines sit somewhere for some period of time. This leads to internal rusting/corrosion. Iron side housings next to aluminum rotor housings with normal tap water creates electric currents. This corrodes the metals.
I left my piece of crap Hayes rebuild sit on the garage floor for about 4 months after being pulled and replaced with my own rebuild. When I finally tore it apart, the insides were still wet with the antifreeze mixture, but there was no rust or corrosion.
12-14-01, 08:25 AM
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I haven't been in touch with KD for a while. So when did he pic up the digital camera and start hookin up customers with emailed pics? Thats absolutely awesome, don't have to drive out to see that stuff.
m_snoby - were you prepared for all this? i know dave always says 'ouch' when he presents you with a big bill but since you bought it with a blown engine (a good move i think) were you ready for it? good luck, sounds like a good start to a project. and dave's rebuilds seem to be tough and strong as all get out so it should be nice
m_snoby - were you prepared for all this? i know dave always says 'ouch' when he presents you with a big bill but since you bought it with a blown engine (a good move i think) were you ready for it? good luck, sounds like a good start to a project. and dave's rebuilds seem to be tough and strong as all get out so it should be nice
12-14-01, 09:17 AM
#14
Blow up or win
If only we could all get a lawyer to file a class action suit and represent every third gen owner..... Can you say NEW ENGINES! for everyone to settle the suit? In a hearbeat, Mazduh would agree to this instead of having to provide new cars for everyone, or pay out millions in cash.
Honestly, I am not fond of laywers but I wonder if this could be done..
How about it guys? Someone out there must know one trying to dream up a nice piece of litigation.
Holy galvanic reaction Batman..TAP water? That would be the PERFECT catalyst to accelerate corrosion, especially if it is allowed to just sit for a while. It's practically like creating a low voltage battery and just asking for electrons to start jumping ship from iron to aluminum and back! Any good chemist could re-create this scenario for proof this is why we are all blowing water seals.
Honestly, I am not fond of laywers but I wonder if this could be done..
How about it guys? Someone out there must know one trying to dream up a nice piece of litigation.
Holy galvanic reaction Batman..TAP water? That would be the PERFECT catalyst to accelerate corrosion, especially if it is allowed to just sit for a while. It's practically like creating a low voltage battery and just asking for electrons to start jumping ship from iron to aluminum and back! Any good chemist could re-create this scenario for proof this is why we are all blowing water seals.
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