Wilwood brakes...
 

Are there mounting brackets made for our cars, where we can utilize their calipers?
Like these?
http://www.pitstopusa.com/SearchResu...ategoryID=4478

Basically, I have an '88 SE, looking into an upgrade from the single pistons. Of course, there is always the 5 lug/4 piston brake swap. But could these be used on a 4 lug setup? Do these calipers fit the 4 piston brakes brackets?

I guess the real question is, Wilwood brakes, or just stick with finding a set of stock 4 pots.

I personally think Wilwoods are crap. The industry standard now-a-days seems to be Brembos. They appear so frequently on stock cars in today's sports cars. I'd stick with the stock T2 brakes, they are more than adequate and affordable. I personally doubt you'd require a brake upgrade from your standpoint unless you are quite the aggressive track driver. Try some pads instead, Porterfield R4 are great.

So why are they crappy? I would like to hear about your experiences with them that made you think this way.

As for the original questions: Yes, you could use these as long as you could mount them. The other thing is finding a rotor that would work. You could try to find a larger rotor for another 4 lug car with the same bolt pattern and try to get that to work. Which means you would have to have larger wheels to fit all this stuff in. But, your probably not going to find rotors that will work, so you would have to get a custom hat made. Now things would be getting expesnive.

It would probably be better to do the 5 lug swap.


Since I already have the 5 lug setup on my car and have a set of superlite 4 calipers left over from a previouis car, I was thinking of making a kit for myself that would use mustang cobra rotors since those are huge and have the same bolt pattern and only cost around $50. Only problem is they center on the hub and not the lugs...

I know Seth (CYMFC3S) has willwoods on his FC, but they are DEFINATELY 5-lug.

Hmm...hopefully he, or other people with experience with these can chime in...

The question is WHY do you want to do it?

Are you having problems with your current braking performance?
Your brakes cannot lock up the tires as it is now?

And to the dumbass who says Wilwoods are "crap"...
If you're willing to sponsor me a set of Brembos or AP/Lockheeds, I'd be happy to put them on my car.
Have you ever drove on Wilwoods?
I have a set of Dynalites 4-pistons up front on my FC.
I bet I can consistently out brake you with my 12.19" x 1.25" rotors everytime?


-Ted

How did you manage that Ted? Interested to know!

My brakes can't lock up my tires, I'm running stock 4 pots with unknown pads (on there sence i bought the car, still have plenty of meat on them) my car stops pretty well (40-0 in just a couple of seconds) but it does not lock them up. Should i be concerned?

You shouldn't be concerned if you have ABS, that means that it's working, but other than that unless you've got some crazy sticky tires your brakes aren't working as well as they should (assuming you're pressing hard enough). Good brake pads are key to good stopping, they're the most important part to maximizing the performance of a given braking system. I'd be willing to bet that with some half decent pads that you'll be able to lock up those tires.

My my, aren't we taking this personally. I didn't recall saying I'd buy you a set of Brembos, but if I did, why would you be so willing to replace them with your Wilwoods? You seem to contradict yourself there. In response to your question, I haven't driven on Wilwoods, but anything not designed for the car or with car specific research put into it, are simply generic BB kits. If you cannot find the significance in that, then I'm done talking to you.

To the original poster: If you really desired a BB kit, Stoptech would be my first choice. Otherwise, like I said before, I'd recogmend sticking to the T2 set-up or simply better pads.

I'm running the prototype set that K2RD developed.


-Ted

If you don't have ABS, then, yes, you should be concerned.


-Ted

If you offer me a Porsche for free, why would I turn it down just because my FC runs fine?
That's some really stupid logic there.

Then you have no qualifications to be making statements for or against Wilwoods.
I'd bet you're one of those blingas who like to brag about all the name-brand parts on your cars?
You have no idea what the Wilwoods can or cannot do, so you have no right to be adding your two cents (which is useless) into the whole thread.
At the very least, you should be retracting what you said.


Which implies that Brembos are just as "generic" since Brembos were never designed specifically for the FC.
Hell, you just implied that ANY aftermarket big brake kit is "generic"...
If these components were never designed for the FC, why you even imply that Brembos were better?

Why don't you do your homework before making such ignorant comments next time?


-Ted

Time to get back to the original topic, since this is starting to stray away...

^^Ted, what are your impressions of the Wilwoods? In comparison to the single piston, or the 4 pistons? What rotors are you using? Mounting brackets?

In your context, you in fact recognize that Wilwoods are indeed an inferior product.

Although it may be true that I have no qualifications, I claimed none to begin with. I vouched my personal opinion, take it or leave it. It seems that only you have taken this out of proportion and into a personal issue.

I am none of what you claim me to be. You are too emotionally drawn in this conversation, which is why things are being led astray. I'd recommend you to stop making this such a big deal, it's quite rediculous and childish.


Where did you get that idea from? At least I should hope that people know that the FC didn't come stock equiped with Brembo. All I said was that they are basically the industry standard for current vehicles such as the evo, itr, and 350z. That doesn't mean that they are generic universal applications that don't necessarily optimize braking capabilities. Which leads me to my point on why I don't like Wilwoods. Companies aren't taking the time to find the best pairing of rotor size and number of piston and sizing for their calipers to find the optimal balance/braking set-up. This is what I didn't wish to bother explaining (of course there's much more), because it's troublesome and not worth my time educating the ignorant.

If you wish to argue, send it to my PM.

Hmm.. I have never agreed with Teds agressive posts. But I have to support him here. Bluewind, your comment about wilwoods being "crappy" where totally unfounded; even though you say your just voicing your opinion, thats not acceptable in this situation since you are somewhat offereing advice to the original poster of this thread. Your opinion is totally subjective and that does not help anyone here.
One of the possible reasons that wilwoods are not found on OEM applications is that wilwood is not the huge company that brembo is and probably doesnt have the capacity to fill an order of that scale.

They are competent for the money.
I would buy them if I just had $1,000 to spend on a Big Brake Kit.
This was how it was priced from K2RD when they offered them for sale.
My current set is sized wrong; if the brake pistons were one size smaller, they would be a good match for the stock Turbo II brake master cylinder at 7/8" bore.

The brake rotor and adapter bracket were all custom made by K2RD.

One big advantage to using the Wilwood brake calipers is you have unlimited options in terms of brake pads.
One of the best brake pads in my book is the Performance Friction brand.
PF dropped most of the FC Turbo applications (HB155 / HB158) a few years ago, and this was a shame.
With the Wilwoods, this is now not a problem.

My current custom 2-piece rotor (+ hat) is actually slightly lighter than the stock 1-piece brake rotor - unsprung weight!
Although the stock rotor is 10.9" x 22mm (~7/8") versus my current 12.19" x 1.25" - that's a big difference!


-Ted

To imply otherwise is just plain ludicrous...
An equivalent Brembo brake caliper ends up being 3 times the cost easily.
Some of the high-end Brembos end up being 10x or over $1,000 each side!


It's your personal opinion based on nothing but hearsay and what you have heard or choose to hear.
Yes, I got a big problem with that - if we all spouted this kinda crap, there would be more chaos than calm.
In fact, 99.999% of the flame wars start cause of this.
I just wanted to point out that your "personal opinion" have no place in here, period.
Whether you believe it not, you are not contributing anything useful to this thread.
Therefore, you should refrain from posting such replies.


Wow, now I'm too emotional and childish...
This coming from someone likes to spout their personal opinion?


This just shows you have no idea how a proper automotive brake system works.
This is why you leave this to the experts.
Thank you for showing your ignorance on the matter.
No reason to take this to PM...you have no idea what you're talking about.


-Ted

Maybe I can lend another experienced viewpoint here. Over the past 15 years I have used pretty much every brake caliper out there, from AP to Wilwood, and while I have my favorites here are my observations based on TRACK use- sorry I have no real basis for any of these brakes as used on the street.

Wilwood is not crap. Period, end of list. At one point in time they were THE standard by which all other racing brake calipers were measured against in NASCAR- which is significant since those guys stop 3800lb cars repeatedly. Wilwood pad compounds are a little off IMHO, and we never got them to work on anything liteweight ie Porsche GT2 class cars or similar. I have found that in racing use the older Superlite and Dynalites will only last about a season before they have flexed to the point we choose not to use them- I suspect they will last forever on a street car or a car with less tire under it. The newer Forged and monoblock style calipers should not have this issue at all.

Brembos are great brakes, but the ones offered on the EVO, STI etc from the factory are not much better than the 4-pots offered on the T2, Mitsu Stealth, Corvettes, etc. Although IMHO they are prettier. A real high-performance set(two) of Brembos will likely cost more than the price of the average T2, and few people will actually be able to tell the difference anyway.

AP calipers are right up there, but they cost me a 30k purse at Laguna a few years ago and I will never use them again if I have the choice- and I do.

Baer calipers are rebadged AP's or Corvette rear(PBRs?? I think)

Stoptech pissed me off like none other about 3 years ago and despite several phone calls from thier top guys I still dont use or recommend them.Maybe one day soon I will give them another chance to piss me off.

Fitting Wilwoods to virually any car is relatively painless, although not the cheapest thing in the world. Depending on the caliper you use you can even use the stock rotor(its plenty for most applications) or a simple hat and rotor setup can be fitted. Tom at TCE could make up a kit for under 1200 bucks I suspect, if hes interested and has time.

For the guy who spoke up about Wilwoods being crap- parts put on cars today are about accountants and image designers, not performance. A true shame but that is what the world has become-

Ted must've woke up to some pwnage juice!

To the poster: There is a complete 5-lug for sale by 13B4Me. You should consider it. It would save you time and money compared to the Willroad upgrade. That's just my opinion on the idea.

Thanks for the great insight.
Not many people are willing to give away information like this so freely...


AP / Lockheed owns Brembo now.


Baer is owned by PBR (Aussie) now.


-Ted

Thanks for all the responses.

Basically, I'm looking to upgrade from my 4 lug, single piston brake setup. After doing research, it seemed the stock 4 piston brakes seemed perfectly acceptable for my uses. Although everyone kind of implied so, I wasn't exactly looking for a big brake kit. But, a remanufactured front caliper goes for ~ $40 + $50 charge, so I looked at the Wilwoods. At the very least, they are new, should stop a bit better, and not much more expensive than a remanufactured caliper. So I made this thread to try and dig up a little more about the Wilwood calipers.

In any case, I appreciate all responses in this thread.

I put on some Hawk pads on my GTUs and the stopping power is just brutal.

they stop pretty well for me, i'll look into getting those hawk pads i hear are amazing. hopefully that'll help out. its not that its hard to stop, they just don't lock up. but it slows down really fast