weld-in sunroof delete
 

So I need to paint my car, and I'm thinking about deleting my sunroof. the motor doesn't work and the water leaks through the old seal. I'm thinking about cutting and welding in a piece.

Has anyone done it and can they give me some tips?

Should I use 16 or 18 gauge? probably tig weld it so I won't have a ton of metal to grind later, huh?

My car is at the shop right now and it looked like it was pretty straight front to back, but left to right had some curve to it. I'm not very concerned about looks, but wanted it decent where it isn't obvious I welded a plate over it. I mainly wanted it for lightening out the car, and without the hassle of changing out new seals.

umm are you sure that the roof will not bend with the heat? I would be very concerned about this..

Carbonfibre plugs att widely avalible.....

the sunroof panel can still be popped out and the seal replaced so that it doenst leak.. even if the motor isnt' working, pull the cover and there is 6 bolts and it comes out.
replacing a seal is a hell of a lot easier, cheaper and smarter then welding a panel in unless your trying to build a custom race car or some sort. of junk.

also it leaves the sunroof option open to the next buyer( im sure you'll never sell, they all say that). if they want to fix and clean it. probaly just needs to be removed cleaned and re assembled.

you can weld without warping if you weld spots every few inches and then weld through all your finished spot welds. if you try to weld one continuous bead then it will look like a rollercoaster by the time you are 12" into your welding. do small sections and allow it to cool, welding thin sheet metal takes a lot of patience.

Thanks for the input guys. Who makes sunroof deletes. I guess now is a good time to search. f

my plan was to make a little structure under it so it keeps shape. I might go into the shop early and remove the headliner and see it a little better. Maybe 3 90 degree angle stock running front to back with to top part of it shaped to the roof contour

I would need to look at it, but I am wondering if I can remove the motor and still have use the manual override to close and seal the roof.

I just thought of another idea. I may consider take my suroof shell, remove the paint and plastic, and use that as my sunroof delete. I would fit the gaps by laying a welding rod or a flat stock in the gaps. What do you think?

Taking out the motor would remove the stock emergency manual retract. That's not to say that you couldn't get something to work, but the motor is what has the recessed hex for the hex key.

So I removed the sunroof. I mocked it up and thought about possibilities.
I'm thinking about using the factory sunroof and pushing it forward to weld. I might use keyway stock to fill the side and rear gaps. Tig welded to reduce grinding, and body filler and sanding to smooth it all out

You can buy a new roof skin for under $300.

the old seal doesn't keep water out. the sunroof tray acts as a rain gutter, and then had drains.

that being said, buy a new roof. every car i've seen with welded up sunroofs looked terrible, mostly e30 race cars though

i had a customer who deleted his on his S5 racecar and i couldn't tell that it wasn't originally a base model s4 roof

the sunroof already has rolled lips that offer a nice structure for a plug to be welded to.

FWIW I have a Fiberglass plug I will be using to delete mine. It bolts right to the sunroof mount holes and it seals with a bead of RTV

GrossPolluter


weld-in sunroof delete
So I need to paint my car, and I'm thinking about deleting my sunroof. the motor doesn't work and the water leaks through the old seal. I'm thinking about cutting and welding in a piece.

Has anyone done it and can they give me some tips?

I had mine done back when the stock non-sunroof roof panel was not available anymore. They have done another production run recently- get a new roof and put it on like the factory roof skin!

I bought a new sunroof panel and non-sunroof reinforcement piece and asked the shop to-

Cut the spot welds and remove all the frame on the sunroof panel and roof.

Cut the sunroof panel corners out and fold the edges flat like if you were patching in a 3/4 panel.

cut the folded lips out of the roof.

Patch the sunroof panel in from below with spot welds and blend it with hammer/dolly and then filler.

Put in the non-sunroof reinforcement piece.

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What they did was put in a 1/4 rod where the sunroof seal went and weld everything solid with all the stock welded reinforcement metal in place and re contour the roof with fiberglass and filler.

They said it was stronger (that is not how a roof skin works...).

I could not use the non sunroof headliner because of the stock sunroof reinforcement.

I could not use the non sunroof reinforcement because of the stock sunroof reinforcement.

I barley gained any helmet room (only in the corner where the bolt in sunroof assembly goes.

When it was hot the metal expanded and there was a visible outline of the sunroof because of the increased rigidity/stresses of the reinforced pieces.
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They re-did it for me taking out a bunch of filler for a more correct flat roof profile and repainted the car, but did not fix any of the mistakes I pointed out causing the problem (the reinforcements).

It had the same problem of showing the sunroof section when hot and eventually the filler cracked.
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I cut out the reinforcement from inside the car (very messy!) so I could fit a non-sunroof headliner, but I never did fully grind down the 1/4" rod/weld that went all the way around the sunroof for fear of how much time and/or heat it would take.

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Moral to long story- do it right with the whole factory roof since you can get it. If a shop doesn't want to do it that way, find a better shop.

LargeOrangeFont

FWIW I have a Fiberglass plug I will be using to delete mine. It bolts right to the sunroof mount holes and it seals with a bead of RTV

Unfortunately, that won't work if your racing class requires a headliner (like SSM for me). You won't be able to fit the non-suroof headliner in the car and retaining the sunroof headliner obviously won't gain you any helmet room (though you get some weight reduction).

Also, even if you don't run a headliner or use a custom/composite one, you won't gain all the headroom above you as with the full non-sunroof roof skin.

Thanks for all the great replies! Now I need to think about what I'm going to do

So I went into the shop and I did what I wanted but screwed up like rotaryevolution was talking about being patient and not overheating the metal. Oh well, nothing a little dent pulling and bondo can't fix. Lol

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...7d2f421814.jpg

I used 1/4" square stock to fill the front and back. I don't know the thickness of the sides, but a tad under 1/4. I tacked the border in, then grinded a little to get final fitment on the roof.
If I we're to do it again, I would just stitch weld it, and use this epoxy we use to seal carbon fiber roof jobs to avoid warpage. I'm glad I'm learning on this car. I'm not very concerned about looks. Well see how well I can fix the dents, and we'll see how well my friend can bondo and sand

I would also like to add I believe with just the amount of welding, if I am to weld the while thing, would pull the sheet metal becausei have to weld from spacer to body and spacer to sunroof would cause it to pull the sunroof. If I we're to turn back time, I would stitch weld and epoxy gaps.

Yeah, that is how the shop did mine.

When it is hot you will have a sunroof outline and it will eventually crack plastic filler.

If you don't care about your health you can lead it- might get heavy metal poisoning and add a 1/2lb to the roof, but at least it won't crack.

There are now metal based fillers which have the same expansion/contraction as the steel, and don't have the fun of lead. Evercoat makes several.

Yes, but Lead has very low embrittlement with the constant expansion/contraction of the joint from the reinforced roof section and Lead forms a very strong bond with steel when properly applied.

The constant flex will be there no matter what the expansion/contraction rate of the filler is because of the stresses from the reinforcement of the roof sheetmetal. You will always have ripples in the roof around the sunroof when the temperature changes.

It is like having a glass plate fused into the skin on your tummy, the edges will always be raw.

Can you clarify where you think the stresses are coming from which/what reinforcement of which portion(s) of the roof and/or skin? I've read your comment several times and cannot fathom what addition constraints/conditions you are introducing to justify the thought that a single piece and something made into a single piece will behave so differently when care is taken to match relevant mechanical properties.

There many factors at play. The roof flexes in that top area, and unless the filler panel is perfectly welded, the panel will not bend and flex uniformly. If there is excess filler the flex and the difference in expansion rates will make the repair visible and or crack and peel the filler over time.

Essentially the metalwork needs to be near perfect. If you are going to pay for a perfect sunroof plug, it is better to reroof the car.

What difference in expansion rates? That appears to be addressed with what Aaron posted. But I agree that poor workmanship will present issues regardless of how you do it, weld, filler, or reroof, the large difference being in where the issues appear on the car.

Yes modern filler has partially addressed the different expansion rates. Keep in mind that the roof is really the only panel on the car that has the potential to flex and twist as the car drives. You want as little filler as possible on the roof.

Just think about how you hear the sunroof creak and pop as you go in and out of a driveway... That is the roof flexing. If you do that enough, you can see how you might start to expose the filler used for the repair.

valley


Can you clarify where you think the stresses are coming from which/what reinforcement of which portion(s) of the roof and/or skin? I've read your comment several times and cannot fathom what addition constraints/conditions you are introducing to justify the thought that a single piece and something made into a single piece will behave so differently when care is taken to match relevant mechanical properties.

The stress comes from the expansion of the metal roof with the heat of the sun.

It doesn't matter if it is all made of something with the same rate of expansion since there is a reinforced section in the middle of the roof.

All the material may expand at the same rate, but the resultant forces from the material expansion will affect the contour of the panel differently as the non reinforced metal deflects (changes shape with expansion) more easily than the reinforced section.

This isn't some theory- this is what I observed on my own FC.

Cutting out the spot welded sunroof reinforcement and the formed lip around the sunroof hole changed the shape of the roof and changed how the roof changed shape with heat. It was less pronounced after that.

Still, there was the area of the rod/weld where the sunroof seal had been that was thicker/stronger steel than the rest of the roof so there was still some minor distortion with heat, though much less.

What happens is the expanding sheet metal "puckers" at the reinforced area and leaves a faint outline of the sunroof panel.

This same distortion happens at the edges of a panel where the sheet metal is folded or welded to the unibody, but it is much harder to notice here than in the middle of the roof.