Thinking about rebuilding my own motor...
 

Seeing that it's October and it's already started snowing here in balmy Connecticut, I will probably have to go get a 4wd or something... Meaning, I can yank my own engine and rebuild it... If I do, can I send the housings out to have them ported? I am doubtful enough of my rebuilding skillz, I am pretty sure I can't do the porting myself...

Any other advice/pitfalls I should be aware of before I consider doing it?

New housing are used for porting.
You could order the new housings ported for you.

Yes. Most shops will be happy to port your housings.

shitty, its snowing there already.

Aaron, do I have to get new housings, or will my old ones be fine?

Doesent it take years of experience and skill to rebuilb an engine? I mean what if you forget a part or somthing and ruin the engine. Why not pay someone to rebuild it for you and know that its being done well. It just seems like itd be extremly difficult to rebuild an engine. Or no?

You can use the old housings if they are in spec.

from what I know its not that hard. I bet you could prolly port it yourself. all you mainly need is a dremel, and a little bit of skills, and you could do it, but it's better to be safe than sorry

It really isn't that hard. The engine has very few parts and if you have the video its pretty hard to mess up. Only thing that ever concerned me was remembering where all the harnesses/vac hoses/etc go when reinstalling it. But with the tape I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard.

Now porting would just depend if you were confident enough and if you had the templates it would help.

DO NOT REBUILD YOURSELF!!! it will cost you about 500 extra dollars... instead give kevin landers 2500 and your engine wiil BE SWEEEEEET!! ( this comes from a guy who rebuild his engine for about 3000 dollars and im not even sure is gonna last 20k )

What the FOCK you talking about - 500 extra dollars. If you have access to the tools, it will cost less. I do mine for under 500.00 each oh and I am sure mine will last another 100K!

Yeah Kevin has a good rep here. No issue there, but don't mislead folks about reality.


Chicken or egg here dude - how do you get experience, have to start with the first one.


Many threads have been started on this topic - most if not all reccomond to buy the tape from Atkins. I reccomond the same. Watch it and then make up your mind. If your sure you can do it, go for it! If you run into problems, just come right to this board. Thats what most of us are here for.


Now porting is all together a different topic. I would find some junk housing to practice on first. Anything that gets cut should have some practice first.

DUDE. im 100% sure the guy has no tools. its 100 bucks for the racing beat flywheel nut wrench and stopper, he needs a cherry picker and an engine stand.
he need a inch and pound torque wrenches
he needs mad carb cleaner which is 10 bucks a gallon.
he needs to deal with shit damaging and not putting enough blue sealeant and if this went in properly or not. dude if you dont have the tools dont do it. dude installing the apex seal's springs is hard as hell!!!

so which is it? if u dun't have tools is it more or less expensive??

Bottom line, if you dont have tools, don't attempt it.

Peruvian, where the hell you get $2500 at? I do s4 NA motors for $1000 plus porting, shipping, and other options. Shit, you get the whole thing installed for under $2k on an s4 NA.

I tell people all the time...you'd be surprised how easy the rebuild **assembly** can be. But, you'd also be surprised how hard the rebuild **cleaning and measuring** can be. It;s hard for someone who doesnt know you to make the judgement of whether or not you could do the job properly. It depends on your knowledge, your work habits, your tools, and work area.

Torque wrenches, engine stands and cherry pickers can be borrowed or rented. Hell, one guy had a post with his engine on a tire as opposed to a stand. I don't think the tools are the hurdle. After rereading this thread, I have to question the whole post count deal. I have rebult 100's of rotaries and sit in the mid 200's. Our poster is alomst at 500. I guess posts are not knowledge . . . Bottom line, buy the video, watch it and make your mind up. If you dont think your up to it, hire a guy like kevin.

Oh and your right on the very first spring you install. It gets way easier the more you do.

Guys rebuilding is easy, did it first time and will do it again soon, my car started first click when rebuilt with no run-in issues and the car put down 300rwhp with a s4 high flow turbo and no porting in australia.
I have all the tools, i didnt use an engine stand, i got a torque rench and engine hoist and bloody big garage.
If you have the tools do it, if you dont buy the tools its worth the investment, im doin rebuilds for mates now.

It cost me $1300AU for new housings, $1000AU for a full seal kit with 3mm seals and solid corner seals, and that was my build, in all $2300AU. Without housings would have cost me just for seals but my housings were screwed.

I have tools, thanks jack ass.

I just figured it would be a fun winter project...

But, if hypntyz7 can do the rebuild and porting, I will farm it out to him.

naaa, do it yourself, you'll learn more, and it should be pretty fun to do I guess. theres no way it'll cost you more than a rebuild. You can spend 900 for the mazdatrix kit, and then do it yourself.

It took me four hours to put my engine back together when I rebuilt it myself this summer. However, I probably spent about 4-6 hours just CLEANING the damn parts before I reassembled everything.

Just got back from a weekend of tearing my old engine apart. If you can, it is worth it to do it yourself.

It comes down to convenience and cost. If you will have the time and work space and want to get some experience and/or learn, go for it.

Therefore, it all depends how interested you are into doing it. The more you want to learn and do it, the better it is going to be. If you go as far as ordering the rebuild kit, taking out the engine, opening it up, cleaning it and then you get fustrated or something and not want to deal with it, it will suck. If you continue and make it work you will have a sense of accomplishment and feel good about it.

Personally if I had the time and resources I will do it.

I remember when I was making the decision to rebuild myself.

I am a total hack but a hard worker. I had no prior experience rebuilding any motor till my first rx blew up.

I loved the car so much I just decided to do it. Now I have taken out four of these motors. Done an auto to manual conversion, drive train conversions and a semi successful s4 to s5 swap which is still in the tunning process.

You will learn alot. And after a little while you'll be able to yank the throttle body off in your sleep.

One thing that I learned afterwards was that while rebuilding is hard and you learn alot, I think from now on I'll just buy remans and pop them in for almost the same cost as rebuilding myself, only it saves me alot of time. The next time I rebuild a rotor motor it will be more customized.

You can get better rotor bearings with more open oil flow though them. Put holley carb jets in the eccentric shaft. Get stiffer oil cooler control springs. Different light weight apex seals etc etc etc.

Eaither way the peice of mind that generated from any new rebuild in the rx is always worth it.

so if i was to rebuild all i need is the engine gasket set let say from mazdatrix and 2mm apex seals?
on mazdatrix and atkins site all i see is 3mm ceramic apex seals.do you guys know a placw where i can get 3mm steel apex seals instead of ceramic?

and tools

thats right jackass.. dude why da hell did you call me a jackass? just because i said you had no tools? and you dont im not talking about regular everyday tools i was especifically referring to the flywheel nut wrench, stopeer and removal tool. dude yeah like evryone said is all up to you. and if you are gonna do it be very careful cuz any miscalculations can fuck it up. by the way buy a rear main seal for teh tranny it will prevent it from spilling in the future. also when rebuilding the engine keep teh side seals and corner seals some place where they wont get lost.. I broke 2 side seals and one corner seal doing the rebuild so i had to use my old ones.. also make sure you open the package with the apex seals with scissors and take them out sowly i broke the head of my 3 piece apex seal and had to use superglue to actually be able to put it on the engine.

one of the other reasons i discouraged you from rebuilding was because when you get a rebuidl engine from a reliable mechanic or source such as atkins or kevin landers you dont have to worry about anything.. since you put your trust in them... everyday i find myself asking if i put enough sealnt on the housings or if my rotors will build up enough compression after the rebuild time is over, if i connected the oil pump right or if its with in specs.... in my opinion atkins and kevin actually have the toos required to measure the thickness and width of important parts such as the rotor housings and e-shaft. you will also have to buy a oil pump chain which is about 40 bucks, plus main and stagionary bearings.. and you will cry when you dont have anyone to install those... i had to travel for 2 hours to actually find a place where they coudl install them.

There was only one problem with the rebujild for me. And that was the coolant o rings, I had to rebuild it twice too replace those. But everything else is really easy. A little tip for you, there is no need to glue the apex seals like a few ppl told me.
Also get a extra side seal, corner seal or two. And upgrade to the S6 corner seal springs.
If you do this I would suggest getting the atkins video, just don't take it as gospel.

Well...
 

Heres my take on things

I have never put a rotary motor back togethor. I have taken on out and apart before.

I jsut purchased a $450 winter beater mobile ('88 GXL0 that MAY or MAY NOT have a blown motor. Should I find that the motor is indeed dead. I will be getting the rebuild kit and doing it myself.

HOWEVER, I do have a 3 car garage, a engine hoist, air tools, a milling machine, and a lathe. I figure there is nothing that I can take apart that I can't get back togethor.

Confidence and patience (sp) will get you a long way s IMO

Mike D

I have everything except the flywheel nut remover, but I have a mazda dealer three blocks away and the service manager there will lend it to me for free.

so if i was to rebuild all i need is the engine gasket set let say from mazdatrix and 2mm apex seals?
on mazdatrix and atkins site all i see is 3mm ceramic apex seals.do you guys know a placw where i can get 3mm steel apex seals instead of ceramic?


You can get them from mazdatrix. Under all parts on rotors

But like Mr. Gadget said, your first wise step is getting a rebuild video so you can see first hand what you'll be getting yourself into.

For instance, I fuxored up when I mixed up the front and rear rotors. Its important to keep them in order. The tension bolts all take a degree of skill so you don't slightly tweek the block out the alignment just enough to cause damage.

Also just getting the gasket seal kit is one thing. Putting it on correctly is another. The front cover has a trick to it that if not done correctly will result in poor oil presure.
The oil cooler lines are very brittle and like to break when sneezing...

So you'll also have to replace the parts you might break in the process.

BTW I never used a breaker bar for the flywheele nut.

I used a huge 3/4 inch impact wrench and if memory serves me right a 2 1/8 socket. I got it back on by fabricating an extension pipe for the puny 1 1/2 foot breaker bar I did have.

thanks for thae advice guys.another thing while the rotary is apart are there anything that i can replace or change to further improve engine performance besides port n polish?

Please do not discourage others b/c of your incompetence.
-Breaking side and corner seals is caused by nothing more than sheer neglect.
- Why replace the oil pump chain? Can you name many a significant number of engines that have failed due to an oil pump chain failure? In my experiences, I have never seen it happen.
- How do you not connect an oil pump correctly? it will only bolt on one way.
- The tools required for checking the parts are no better than the home mechanic's if you go with a professional rebuild: dial indicater, micrometer set, straight edge, and set of feeler gauge set. All fo these can be had for under $80 total.
- Almost NO rotaries need to have their bearings replaced during a rebuild. Copper wear is not always an indication the bearing should be replaced.

"Dude, like, yeah" I am not surprised your rebuild failed, you haven't got a clue as to what you are doing. However, just b/c you can't comprehend rebuilding methods and perform them correctly does not mean everyone can't.


$100T2, take it from me, you can do this. Everyone has their first try, and honestly, it is pretty hard to mess up if you set yourself with organization and take your time in assessing wear.
The cases listed above of personal failures are from kids being overzealous and rushed in their assemblies in hopes of getting a fast car as soon as possible, and from sheer ignorance. Follow the FSM and take your time, and you'll be fine.

There a re a lot of other internal modifications that can be done to increase cooling and oiling capabilities of the engine, as well as stregthen the engine for increased rpm capabilities. You simply have to question if your application will require it. There is no sense in polishing the oil passages, adding 3-window bearings, and holley jets in the e-shaft for a street0use 6 port engine.

what are some internal ways to increase cooling?i have s4TII.

Port match the water jackets and groove around the spark plugs. Keep in mind these are both easy to mess up.

Damn straight

Thanks for the support, guys... I figure I have from November until March to get it done, I should be able to handle it in that time... And I've always had confidence in my mechanical abilities... It might have taken a genius to design and build the first rotary, but now it's just the work of a mechanic... Anything one person can build, any of the rest of us can do...

There is no sense in polishing the oil passages, adding 3-window bearings, and holley jets in the e-shaft for a street0use 6 port engine.


I completely agree that one must judge the applications that are going to be used when the new rebuild is installed.

But its not a bad idea to lay the foundations for a motor that will handle a harder load and rpm max with more reliability.

On my next engine I am going to get bearings for greater oil flow and will be putting carb jets in the e-shaft. Along with stiffer oil control ring springs and stiffer corner seal springs etc.

While the engine will be run off bone stock with the exception of the RB down pipe,presielencer etc to begin with...

The reason I'll be doing this first is because when I do get around to putting an atkins supercharge on it I'll have a greater piece of mind that the internal engine components will be able to take the extra power.

Its all in the idea phase so maybe I won't be doing everything I just said, maybe more or less. But than again its all about the forethought of what the engine will be doing later

I certianly don't want to put the super on there and blow the motor up in 10K.

And I also don't want to just rebuild with the stock regularities just so that I can tear her apart again to replace stuff I could have when the engine was already out once before.

sweet dude IM GETTING BANNED!

how much are the gaskets for the rebuild and new housings? (mine are bridgeported and i dont want to spend 1600$ getting it tuned to have my engine have the chance of blowing at any given moment)

Where do you get all your information from? A piston forum? :D :D

I rebuilt mine for under 1000 CDN. With Used housings/rotors. Apex seals are not hard just take very little practice. Buy the video and then decide.