I like using a plug. the taurus fan you can get the plug to go with it.
Read a couple mustang threads and seems that ford does not sell the fan plug separate its part of a sub-harness thats like $100.
wonder if it happens to be the same as a taurus plug hmm?

I already have a 70 amp relay be nothing to try it out

as for as alternator ratings when I bought my FD alternator brand new it came with a spec sheet saying it put out 130+ amps

There's definitely a connector separately available, because I've bought them. I can't remember if it came with pigtails or if you had to add three terminals.

Rated at 3286 CFM, Wow!

Hope the ducting is routed correctly or that may increase lift on the front end of an RX7:crackup:

Here is a photo of the connector.

Yes that is what those flaps are for.

deacon whats the other fan in the pic?

Not 100% sure, but if I were to guess, the 2012 and back Mustang GT500 fan.

For sale, here it is on a Humvee radiator.

Attachment 621317

If that isn't scale enough, here's the topside of the stack. The I/C exhanger fans are dual 10" units.

Attachment 621318

As I said, I THINK it'll fit over an FC radiator. Might have to do some notching, might have some overhang, but if this sucker doesn't cool your car then nothing will :) Peak amps on high is still under 40a. It's very efficient.

what does it measure?

I am going to hop into this discussion I suppose. I think everyone who has spoken has a valid point in at least one post or another. I just want to bring up a few things that have not been addressed.

To start, I have a Bosch alternator rated at 90 amps. I can tell you for a fact that it puts out more than 90 amps. Firstly, it actually has a pulley smaller than stock. Secondly, the voltage regulator on the beast keeps voltage between 13.8 and 13.9 at all rpm, regardless of load. I have turned everything on that I could possibly think of in my car and it doesn't budge, and yes, I used a digital multimeter. Thirdly, I CAN bog my electrical system down and I know that sounds very contradictory to what I said above but I'll get to that in the next paragraph.

As an installer, of course, I have an upgraded audio system. The alpine 4 chan amp I have is fused at 60 amps, but of course it would never pull that unless it's shorted internally. It is rated for 300 watts of output RMS. Let's do a little ohms law!

300/13.8=21.74

So if it was 100% efficient, at max capacity, it would draw 21.74 amps at 13.8 volts. Problem is, it is only going to be about 50% efficient in the real world and it will actually draw around 33 amps of current on full blast. To the conclusion...

Fact is, our RX7's are old, and the electrical portions of the car are obsolete in terms of engineering. Old car problems like corroded light bulb sockets all over the car to even the most obvious garbage grounds.. I could go on and on. If I turn my headlights on the engine experiences a load by the electrical system and the idle drops, same with my power windows, and blower motor, and AC. In my tests before (I have done this several times) turning everything on full blast including the radio, my voltage NEVER drops below 13.8. If my alternator couldn't handle it, the battery would be supplying the current and voltage would drop to 12.6 but it never does.

TL;DR, It's not the damn alternator, it's the car and poor install.

16" Advance Auto Parts universal fan. Drove daily all last summer into Fall. No issues.

S4 with FMIC, Koyo rad, stock Alt(probably 15 years old), Big Optima red top.
E-fan controlled by Haltech PS1000. Rock solid temps.

I considered getting a variable speed PWM controlled fan like most modern cars to reduce start up current when the fan kicks on, but in the end I couldn't justify it to myself.

Im interested in something like this for a Air to water IC heat exchanger.
I had my undertray off today and measured a good 10"x20" of usable space for a cooler.
In that setup, would the air flow downwards through the intercooler? Is there a low or high pressure for the first foot under the nose?
And did it need fans?

I must say I am shocked nobody came in with a rebuttal.

rebuttal, to butt again.

i ran into the same thing. i bought a T2 in about 2000, and i put an engine in it, and started driving it, i noticed that the charging volts were low, and cranking speed was low, ie it was showing all the signs of a bad alternator. because i read this forum i put an S5 alternator in it. it helped, but it was still marginal.

time passed, and in one of the engine swaps (i went 20B, and then back to 13B-T), i replaced the charging harness.

replacing the charging harness instantly fixed the charging problem. on the S4 there is a staple splicing the alternator wire to something, and i think that goes bad, and we change the alternator, because we think its marginal, and the bigger alternator masks the problem, to an extent.

So my point is validated. :)

I guess if anyone missed my point on the alpine amp, it's very simple.

If I can install a device that draws 33 amps of current, installed with its own wiring of course, and the electrical system doesnt even blink. Turn the headlights on, oh god. Turn the AC on, oh god.

Just as j9fd3s validated my point, it's not the alternator, it's the car!

I was just thinking, it would not be hard to upgrade the charge harness and bypass it with 8 gauge wire. Still fused of course!

The staple probably squeezed the wires too tight so the electricity didn't flow.

Kind of like how you should never coil a data line because centrifugal force squishes the 0s into 1s and you get data corruption unless you go to a slower connection speed.

Yeah and we need a wire stretcher...

this has actually turned into a very useful thread!

i thought the 1's couldn't make the turn! damn! i've been doing it wrong the whole time

Give some detail regarding this 'staple'? Are you referring to a crimp connection somewhere on the B wire? What is the location of this connection?

Details will help!

thx,

Jack

its been a LONG time, and you need to unwrap the harness, but i think its closer to the fuse block than anywhere else

The staple probably gets corroded. Factory splices tend to suck anyhow.

As far as squishing 0's and 1's, modern can bus installation employs twisted pair construction with a twist about every 1/4 inch. Of course if you where to coil up a data wire, it will have issues because of this crazy phenomena called INDUCTANCE.

:lol:

That damn Internet...In a way that's true. One person has success with a thing, then suddenly it's the next rage. However judging by the shear number of problem threads with that fan setup on this forum, I'd say it's a fairly unfortunate fad.

In my case, the Pontiac 6000 / Big Oldsmobile / Grand Am/Prix / Fiero / many 90s GMs fan has been dead reliable and cools well. I have put them on 10s of FCs/FBs, and I know there are a LOT of FCs out there running it on my recommendation. We have a semi-local wrecking yard around here that does a "free parts day" (pay $45 and take what you can carry) so I go there and load up on those fans. Often give them away free to those looking for a good solution for their rotary car. I've had one on my FC since 2001 or so when my clutch fan died. Shroud fits the stock FC rad very well and is very easy to mount with some angles.

On my Cosmo I went further. Wanted more granular fan control so I went with a Derale dual 11" fan setup in an aluminium shroud with flaps.

I think it is this one:
Dual Powerpacks : High Output Dual 11" Electric RAD Fan/Aluminum Shroud Kit - 22-1/2"W x 19"H x 4-1/2"D

That way the fans can be spun up in a staggered fashion according to cooling needs. They seem quite energy efficient, but dear FSM do they move air! They will suck a piece of 1/4" plywood to the rad. If Derale is to be believed then each fan will pull 1800 CFM.

Looks like it would fit the FC rad with some trimming.

They also make a PWM version now:
PWM Powerpacks : High Output Dual 11" Electric RAD Fan/Aluminum Shroud w/ Built-in PWM Controller - 22-1/2"W x 19"H x 4-1/2"D

Here's a shamless plug of me installing said fan:


Unless the blade design is more efficient, of course. Crappy unshrouded straight blade fans with poor motors might pull 20A, but an efficient OEM fan with a shroud, close tolerance between blade and shroud, might move twice the air at 15A. We all know this though.


The crappy quality and high profile failures of some high dollar efans is appalling given the availability of inexpensive, durable oem fan units. Popular choices are Taurus, MarkVIII Lincoln, Villager, Volvo, GM etc. You completely get that, as you are also using oem fans from certain GM cars.

I remember that bandwagon. I don't believe I commented, because I don't think I had anything worthwhile or nice to say. :)

Yes, I don't think the GM fan I use would be adequate to cool with an FMIC, A/C and in 35 degree weather. Any of those two, just not all three. Then again that is a real bastard of a cooling scenario which would probably require multiple fans anyway (we often forget Mazda included a small aux fan on A/C equipped cars). Which is why I went bigger and dual with the Cosmo.

The difference though is they were just parroting junk based on little experience and popular wisdom. In the say way, while turbo charging an NA car works, it's not something I'd recommend for most people as there are other more appropriate choices. Just like the Taurus fan working for some, but there are better choices for most.

Haha, beat me too it!

I just looked this Derale up. Going from an inexpensive 2-speed Taurus fan that pulls 25 amps to a $400 Aftermarket fan that pulls 38 amps doesn't seem to be moving in the direction you are advocating.

If someone is unable to wire a 2-speed Taurus fan @25 amps, how in the world can they handle this Derale?:dunno:

One other cool thing: I've been watching that Derale PWM system progress for some time. Derales's PWM system seems to be licensed or even perhaps manufactured by DC Controls. The patent number cited in Derale literature is registered to Brian Baskin, owner of DC Controls.

Constant Temperature Controllers and Accessories

The Derales are also junk.

Electric fans are one place where the aftermarket simply cannot match the OEMs' level. The OEMs concentrate hard on airflow efficiency because it allows a smaller radiator/smaller frontal area/quieter operation (noise is wasted energy).


On the other hand, if you price out what OEM fans cost for new replacement, the Derale wouldn/t seem very expensive. The GT500 fan I posted is an outlier because they are good AND inexpensive. The fans I run are something like $500 if bought new. Fortunately, Chrysler saw fit to put about seven million of them out on the roads :)

I have seen this effect on refrigeration equipment

1: evaporator fan blades moving the fan blade in and out of the shroud changes how much air is can move!
2: condenser fan as well same principles so i can see how ducting would make a difference as well.

I like the link about using the stock fan shroud but makes for a tight engine bay wow!

I agree lost of good info came out.
good points on
1: using relays
2: soldering connections
3: proper wire sizing base one amp draw and length of wire run for load

(witch is how mine was wired btw. ran a wire off the zero gauge to my 60amp fuse, then relay to high speed fan. one this i never did was take an amp reading of the fan... it might have been on its way out but eather way i could not cool my car at highway speeds with out my clutch fan.

that was my initial taught on the charging system vs my efan as well... so i kept my stock fc B wire, added a zero gauge wire to the starters + wire(soldered all end connectors using a B-tank lots of heat and solder :D)
and i think i bumped up my volts by .30amps.

but a good things to inspect!!!

kinda question the data, i'm sure mazda spent some time at least as well as other car manufaturers to fan placement. both series 6/7 and RX8 e-fans sit 2-3" from the core, as do many other car manufacturer fans. space may play a role but some of them have room to move them back but chose not to.

i know my fan still pulls a ton of air with a similar placement as the above mentioned setups, only difference is my fan has about a 10% loss of coverage of the core. however when it is working properly it never had any issues with cooling even with the stock radiator and sandwiched front mount just in front of the radiator. that with a .70A/R turbo putting out about 350whp, though it is easily capable of 550+.

run the numbers through the shroud calculator and you will find that the necessary space is usually pretty small. Calculations for my Mark VIII fan show a 1.5" setback is the right number. Beyond that calculated spacing, there is no benefit regarding airflow through the heat exchanger/radiator.

1.5" sounds about what the taurus fan shroud is

Weird, I have been rocking a black magic flex a lite 180 (now called 155) for almost 20 years :nod: No issues at all, in fact, I used this fan without an engine tray, no thermostat, unplugged bypass, in a constant 90F weather without a single problem.

they probably were quality back then, nowadays flex-a-lite is cheap chinese like shit quality even if it is made in the USA(which im gonna call bullshit on, they may be assembled in the US but the quality sure reminds me of a poor knockoff chinese attempt at a 1/10 cost part, the chinese at least eventually get it right but flex a lite apparently is working backwards in quality while still raising their prices).

i've had: fuse holders melt even when wired properly, fan control relays fail and fan motors fail.

there's not much else that can really fail that i haven't seen fail on them. we did get them to send us a new control relay once for one that failed just within the 1 year warranty period. once inside i noted that the spade connector quality was sub par and replaced the terminals with gold plated ones and that cured the relay issue in my own fan. but it was only a temporary fix because a couple years later the fan motor simply wore out. how the fuck does an e-fan motor wear out? you got me, but this flex-a-lite black magic fan did.

the fact you can buy all these parts induvidually might tell ya something about their known quality issues.

before anyone assumes you can wire one of these fans improperly, even a fucking monkey can wire a positive and negative wire. well, most monkeys, i've still seen plenty who managed to fuck that up with shitty crimps or loose connections.

and probably ONLY had the factory oil cooler up there as well, no AC no FMIC

Ohh snap, was not aware that their quality went downhill over the years :(

At that time, yes, factory oil cooler, factory AC, PS, and no FMIC. I did experience coolant temp issues when I went with a FMIC. Pulled the FMIC and never looked back.

buy a lottery ticket!

I had a 1995 V6 Honduh Accord V6. Bought it brand new. Somewhere North of 300k miles the OEM fan took a shit, so it can happen. I calculated that 300k at an average of 45mph (real number from an obdII connected device in my current car) in Texas with the A/C on 60% of the time equaled to 4000 hours of run time.

Gotta love OEM durability.

I kludged a 14" Hayden into the oem shroud using and put another 40k on the car before I sold it.

the black magic probably ran 1/6 of that before it pooped itself. lol

For my personal information, what died on the black magic fan, the motor? In retrospect, I am only using the shroud, motor and blade of my original black magic fan, and it gets controlled through the haltech. Maybe that's why I've had such a good luck with it?

i'll let you know when i tear it apart, it was acting like the brushes wore out.

The wiring I've seen on some clustershag cars would tend to disagree with that. ;) My personal favourite for fans was the unknown junkyard fan zip tied to the rad core (not the end tanks). Then 14 or 16 gauge obviously well used interior speaker wire poorly soldered directly to the terminals of the fan, with the connector cavity then packed solid by what I think was tile grout. This connected to a residential 120V 15A light switch (ivory white) which was shoved underneath the stereo. Power source was a wire-nutted connection to the cigar lighter +12V, ground ended up at the stereo surround trim mounting screw. The plastic in that area was melted. Guy said "It's been like that for years. Works fine".

Wish I had a camera handy at the time but it was in someone's driveway.

The whole car was a mess like this. I refused to touch it.

i more or less meant the wiring that came with the flex-a-lite kit, it comes with 10 or 12 gauge wiring and terminals that you simply crimp and then use a ring terminal to attach the ground and positive wires to the battery and chassis. it's kinda tough to mess it up when you are supplied the parts but i guess even some people don't know how to crimp or strip wires.

16 gauge wiring? lol, talk about a fire hazard.