RX-7 TII Vs WRX?
 

Alright guys, recently I posted about an 87 RX-7 Turbo II I found for 4,000 bucks. Its in an incredible state of upkeep and condition and I think its personally a good deal.

However, before I waste 4 grand on a car... I want to know something about 2nd Gen RX-7's.

I own a 2002 Subaru WRX, AWD, Turbo, The works. I want to know if an 87 RX-7 TII will be of ANY comparison.

Keep in mind, the nice older gentlemen who happens to be a car collector, and actually had an 86 Porsche 928S sitting next to the RX-7... Has rebuilt the engine, put a larger turbo on it I believe he said, an all new "High-Flow" exhaust, and a manual boost controller of some sort, its purple/blue on the passenger side wheel well in the engine bay, with a vacuum hose hooked up to it. No experience whatsover with one of them... His explaination of the car is that is is "exceedingly fast." And that it is pushing around 10lbs of boost instead of 7. So he estimated about 70hp increase from stock. So I'm looking at about 250hp? From my esimation from the FAQ page atleast...

I want to know any ups and downs or anything about the RX-7, if its at all possible. And, do you think THIS setup is in any way comparible to the WRX that I have in terms of handling, accel, top ... well I know the top end is faster.... 160 Vs 140.

And, something curious... He said it doesn't have a blow-off valve... because I tried to give him a weird type of vibe about me trying to be inconspicous about cops. Cops LOVE WRX's.... :rolleyes: But... Yeah... Think this is a good buy?

Btw, I'm sellin the WRX because of insurance.... $350 car payment, $650 insurance bill... monthly.

Never underestimate the power of a rotary. :) the AWD may win of the line but the lighter rx would have a big advantage after that.

yes indeed...you must buy onoe for your self.. cuz it just can not be explane

yes indeed...you must buy one for your self.. cuz it just can not be explane

well lets put it this way, a stock wrx is what 20k. A nice stock T2 is 4k. Put 5k worth of mods on that TII and that wrx couldn't keep up past 3rd

edit: dude, $650 monthly insurance, thats a shitload even with full coverage. I'd be looking for a new insurance company. I don't have full coverage, pay $140 and I'm 18, I don't own a wrx but I own an rx7 which is just as "sporty". State Farm wanted $255 a month for normal coverage, yay right I'd pay them grubby money fiends.

the 7 is a hobby labor of love an obsession.

I have a 87 tII and I ran my friends 2003 wrx from a stop. it was even until I got through 3rd and pulled. Both cars were stock. The only thing about a 87 is the other things under the hood besides the engine are 17 years old. my engine was rebuild but i still ended up spending over $500 in the first 4 months of owning the car. You will run into problems with the TII. But other than that i love my 87 TII.

The vehicle's value is a big part of its insurance premium. You can't compare your premium to the premium of a car worth ten times as much.

Anything in the department of handling? I know AWD = Uber... but is it even remotely close?

I'm more of a "road-race" guy, I live in West Virginia and there are curvy roads everywhere, and I've grown to love them over "Circle-Tracks" and drag. But I do enjoy a good 0-100 dig to get the old heart pumpin.....

So anyway, now that the acceleration subject has been covered, what about Handling?

*BTW* I plan on upgrading the suspension anyway, 1987 technology Vs 2005 technology = Loser... So... I'm definately going to look at adjustable coilovers or... whatever would fit on the car.. I don't know much about Mazda's...



OR My buddy said I should invest in a Miata... But.. Don't know how that'd work.. a 13BT would definately get put into the Miata, but at any rate... I started rambling... HANDLING?

by the way.... carb or Fuel Injector...????

Here's a concept: Test drive the car.

yeh i also wanted to be 100% sure on which one it was? anyone?

The 2nd generation RX-7 is fuel injected stock. (I think that answers your question??)

It's a sickness as well....trust me on this one :)

IMHO, in comparison, on the pavement, RWD will always rule over AWD. AWD has this slight problem: It dosen't like to turn very easily on pavement when all 4 wheels have traction. RWD you can control and use to your advantage to get the rear end to step out and many other manuvers that would require much more aggresive driving with AWD. All in all, for a road race car, RWD will always be out on top for handling.

Sell the Subaru, get the '7, get a daily driver (older Civic or something) to drive when the '7 isn't running (or you don't want to take it out - snow/ice), mod the '7 (suspension, tires, etc) and you'll still be ahead.

-=Russ=-

I raced my buddies wrx, with about 30k in after market parts, in my '87 TII with maybe 1k worth of parts and I kicked his ass as soon as i hit three gear. He didn't have A CHANCE

Hey I'm in WVa to, ya ins here sucks ass I pay $150 on 2 cars ( my 7 and my bronco II ) I raced a WRX in my 87 GXL w/ dieing engine on the twestys and lost mainly becuse of old suspension was not up to it but I keeped up and never lost sight of the wrx. if that helps in any way.

Peace
Mage

Hmmmm, Well I think it may be settled then... I think Monday I might go down there, hand him a check for 4,000 and see if he bites...

I think you made the right choice... I own a bunch of 7's... and put it this way - there is a definite rx7 "niche", or at least there is around here... So random props from kansas :-D
now, i have an engine to pull LoL...

That is a gross (and inaccurate) generalisation. There are far too many other varibles to consider, and your theory can really only be applied to light, under-powered cars that have trouble breaking traction under power. 4WD requires a slow-in, fast-out approach compared to RWD, a style RWD proponents don't seen to understand. 4WD power-understeer can also be largely eliminated with an LSD. The fact that you can put more power down on exiting the corner means a powerful 4WD car will always be much, much quicker out of a corner (and hence quicker overall) than a similarly-powerful RWD car. Sideways isn't fast, not matter how much you enjoy it.

do a compression check on it before you buy it . see how often he changed his oil and what have you. $ 4000 on a clean TII with a upgraded turbo is a good deal , but beprepared to possible dump more money on it.

Here's the thing, the WRX is more fun as a daily and usable car. You can go skiing in it etc without any worries about it, it handles pretty well too. It will have much better low end response (acceleration from stop lights, etc) and notice how everyone is saying you'll pull past 3rd in the FC, but probably loose or maybe even before that. You're getting a pretty biased answer this being an RX7 Club, but I'd test drive and see what you think. Oh and FYI, the car has a compressor bypass (Blow Off) valve, it just isn't vented to the atmosphere to make a psssht noise, much like your WRX.

Rexes have nothing for steering feed back. You will miss that when going from your subaru to the mazda. In stock form they are scary to take high speed bend in because of the DTSS (DTS?) automatic-toe-adjusting-wannabe-4WS-system that makes the car a little bit unpredictable. Rx7's also drift like no other, so if that's your thing, you'll love the FC.

The DTSS can be and should be eliminated to make the car more predictable. I'm not sure what to do about the steering..I drove a manual rack TII and it was mute as well.

My .02 cents, I'm a curves man myself. Good luck on your new rex.

Ok thats pure bullshit..... maybe 30k in show related shit... anyways, as for a comparison between a wrx and rx7 go... there is none... first of all the rx7 is a pretty old car and at 17 y/o + alot of parts wear out... including interior, suspension and exterior parts...most turboII's out there for sale, are most likely ragged out by previouse owners, so be very carefull into wat you get yourself into.. now performance wise, an rx7 is very comparable to wrx, plus probably alot cheaper to upgrade certain parts... like other people have said, since this is an old car, there will be some down time... and w.e. shop you take it to will most likely charge a pretty penny to perform any work to it... just dont jump into something because you think its cheaper now, it might come out more expensive than you thought in the longrun...on the upside, rx7's are very fun cars to work on, and almost any performance upgrade will make you fall more and more inlove with it...

you think the rx7s feel unconnected? i autocrossed my friends modified wrx (he is the president of the autox assocition) and i couldn't feel it as well as this 1st gen i autoxed (fb's are supposed to be no feel compared to fc's) i've yet to autox an fc and my turbo2 has a slipping clutch right now....this modified one your looking at buying would blow the doors off of a wrx especially a stock wrx, and if you've got wide sticky tires that launch well then you could take a wrx from a dig. btw the wrx didn't seem to have anymore torque or power down low (rpms) than a T2, now a wrx sti is a different story. good luck with the t2, oh yeah and back wheel drive cars don't always handle better than awd.

Well, like you've said. The WRX has been..... ragged. Its starting to come apart after 60k miles of VERY hard driving.

The RX-7 will get a full tune-up from KDrotary as soon as I get the chance anyway. I'm not worried about it.

So your friend has 30K in mods on his WRX and you beat him in a very lightly modded TII? You need to either lay off the crack, or your buddy needs to take his 30K dollars worth of stickers off.

As far as TII vs. WRX, stock for stock, the WRX is quicker (1/4 mile wise) but probably slower on a road course. mod for mod they're fairly close as well, with the TII edging out because of the weight advantage.

I'd say the WRX still has the advantage on a road course compared to a TII...

RWD with LSD is the best :)

i've driven both my 88 TII and an 04 WRX. The WRX did feel a little bit quicker in a straight line but it didn't feel like it handled quite as well. The tires seemed to squeal and slip at slower speeds than my TII. Keep in mind they were not on the same tires.

My TII has stock suspension (16 years old) and it still felt much firmer and stable than the WRX. The Braking on the WRX was nowhere near the quality of the TII. The WRX did everything electronically and it really didn't seem to stop too quick. The TII really bites the road and gets down quick. Again, they did not have the same tires so consider that. I have stock 16 year old brakes.

The RX-7 IMO has a much better road feel than the WRX. The WRX felt like it was driving me and I was just giving it suggestions. Now while it was pretty quick and definately fun to drive, I enjoy my RX-7 much much more.

The transmission on the WRX is nice. The TII is about as nice with good bushings. The shift position in the TII is a little easier to get to when you are shifting quickly.

You sit much higher in a WRX than in a TII. I think is not just a road feel thing but also a handling characteristic. The WRX definately does corner well but the TII feels more like a carving knife. It's very low to the ground compared to the WRX and is sprung harder. I think the TII definately has a more sports car-ish feel to it than the WRX.

I also got to drive the WRX in the snow. The TII is more fun in the snow but the WRX is definately waaaaay faster and easier to control.

I would disagree with the comment about the WRX having more low end. The WRX really doesn't start to accelerate until about 4,000 RPM, which is right around where my TII picks up. They seemed about equal in that department.

I tried to drive both cars and look at them as objectively as I can and I came to this conclusion. The WRX is probably a little faster than the TII in a straight line. The TII is probably a little faster on low to mid speed corners. The TII always FEELS faster. The WRX is easier to drive but the TII makes you feel more like you're connected with the road. Don't get me wrong, the WRX is a very very fun car but if I personally had to choose between the two, I would take the TII as a weekend canyon carver/track car/autocrosser and the WRX if I wanted a more comfortable daily driver/weekend toy kinda thing.

I currently Own both a rx7 AND a gc8 with a 2.5-T (not the sti, but smae displacement and low down grunt) granted my subie weighs alot less than a wrx (I hate wrx's they feel very top heavy and they have no low down tq), my subie kills just about anything on the road, both in straight line acceleration and on the track, you can't realy compare the two cars, they are as different as night and day and require 2 totaly different styles of driveing. The suby is unforgiveing when you come into a corner too hot, you get massive understeer that can be hard to correct without slowing way down and loseing alot of time, it can also be very unpredictible (especially when the lsd's start getting hot), whats nice though is you CAN kick the rear end out in awd (think of weight shifting) then you can use the front to pull out of a corner much faster than a rwd, but the steering is no where near as tight as the 7... I love the 7 on the track cause it's much more predictible. If you can launch the rx7 very well, you will smoke a wrx.... think about the drivetrain loss, subies loose alot to the extra drive train bits. The seven if launched right should have no problem keeping up with the wrx and smokeing it after 2nd gear, I know mine doesn't. I'm a huge subie and 7 fan, I've had 3 fc's and 2 gc8's (one of which is about to get a sti type ra ver.5 motor swap). The rx7 is more of a drivers car (tight corner, kick the rear out a little, long corner feather it at the breaking point of an awdrift, drag= keep the rear from breaking loose without bogging) the subie is more of a no brainer car (push gas hard and go, slow for corner then push hard right after the apex, drag= rev to 5k/ slip for a second/ side step and go). Both are fun cars but you'll LOVE the handeling of the 7, no more of that damn top heavy feeling. Plus the 7 is cheaper.
If you want to know more pm me.... I am a huge fan of both cars, my dad owns a subie shop and I've built up both 7's and wrx/gc8's

Jumbogumbo speask the truth.

I love when you guys type and you have no idea what you're talking about :) Obviously you guys have never driven a WRX on a road course...I have...it's NOT a road racing car at ALL. It pushes and understeers all over larger rear sway bars only help for off throttle situations. A nice LSD helps big time - but how many people do you know with say a Cusco LSD on any car...it's pricey. They just aren't fast track cars and the powerplant is far from ideal for a road course. Power falls off big time on the top end and it takes a healthy investment to really alter the powerband significantly (namely cams, an ECU like a UTEC and a different turbo).

They do best on uneven surfaces and in foul weather - meaning they make great rally cars and terrific street cars.

Want a great AWD track car? Drive an Evo, they fair really well on a road course. Got a lot of $ to burn, go for a 911 turbo ;)

An FC with a decent intake/exhaust will take a stock WRX pretty easily (as many people have already said.) I'd imagine weight being the biggest advantage.

Just make sure the FC you're looking at is in good shape. I spent extra (6500) and got one that only had 60K miles on it, with a newly rebuilt motor; and this engine does things that most people think would destroy it. A properly maintained/built rotary is much stronger than rumors lead on, and many people would agree.

I've driven mine (lap after lap) at Laguna Seca with the stock cooling system and had no problems with overheating, although I'm still getting audible knock on this CA crap gas.

FC + $1000 = mid 13's at least

I think that turbo FC's are just about the best bang/buck car there is, HP wise.

Suspension options for the rx7 are endless, but just STOCK they're pretty damn good.. well damped and not undersprung.

I have both an 01 Impreza 2.5RS and an 89 RX-7 GXL. Putting speed aside for a moment, the RX-7 FEELS better. The Subaru is a sedan that goes fast and grips well. Its easy to go moderately fast and gives you confidence. The RX-7 is a sports car, it feels special when you get in, likes its entire purpose is to go fast, not carry 4 passengers. You sit low with a cockpit interior that is better quality than the Subaru.

The RX-7 is also easier to drive because the clutch is not as sensitive to weather/humidity. On a humid day, you get clutch sudder in the Subaru till the clutch gets warm. Not so in the RX-7. The steering feel is better in the Subaru, though the ratio is slower.

Plus, sometimes you just want to spin the wheels and launch the car. The RX-7 TII will take it. Don't try that in a WRX unless you bought the spare tranny option.

AWD clutch dump launch? Been there.... done that.... grenaded one tranny already. Payed cash for the second one, and have been much... nicer since then. :P lol

I think I'll try to go get the RX-7 tomorrow morning, I just got back from the DC-Auto-Show, took tons of pics, and I haven't slept since early yesterday afternoon. :D I'm a MACHINE.

God I love what the army does to you... Anyway, I GREATLY, GREATLY appreciate all the advice on such things... Overall, I just have to get SOMETHING cheaper, and I figured while I'm at it, go for as sporty as possible... and I think I'll be satisfied either way.

First and foremost, sound clips of exhauts? Opinion of best turbo-back catless exhaust for RX-7? :D :D :D :D :D