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pulse plugs (pulstar)
i found out about these the other day anyone \know if they are worth their salt
www.pulstar.com |
ha they don't even make them for rx's
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Also they're junk.
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all the tests ive seen on tv or what not look like they kick other plugs asses, whats so junk about them.
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seems to be only made for Nissans and hondas
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Originally Posted by rotaryracer1
(Post 8844687)
all the tests ive seen on tv or what not look like they kick other plugs asses, whats so junk about them.
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Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
(Post 8845275)
Ya know, everything on TV is 100% accurate, right? I mean, it's not like the manufacturer of products being tested on car shows are sponsoring the show or something....Oh, wait. :)
There are several publications that have tested these plugs, and most have been quite honest of their findings. Some applications (most notably the VQ35) respond very well to these, whereas others (can't think of it right now but I remember the results) didn't respond at all. The only way I can think of the difference in the way these plugs fire and normal ones is the difference between a standard arc and an arc-blast. One will scorch a little and produce a visible spark, one will knock you on your ass and cause an audible explosion. Now that may not be the exact way these things work, but the point is there are differences in the way electrical energy can be released. |
I think the first time I ever heard of a company making these type of plugs that I can remember was the late 80s. They were tested by the US EPA and proved to be junk. Since then, about a hundred different versions have been produced and none have been on the market for more then a year.
The fact is, once the flame front has been ignited, the plug is out of the equation. You could have the most powerful spark in the world but if all that is required in a tiny arc, it's all irrelevant. Also keep in mind that the pulse plug is just a capacitor in series with the plug. It cannot create any more energy, and actually lowers spark energy because no capacitor is 100% efficient. If they were so good, they would have been on all vehicles for the past 40 years. Just reading the marketing rhetoric is enough to make you question the manufacturer. It claims things that are impossible: " but incorporate an internal capacitor to deliver a spark 10 times more powerful than a spark plug with less cycle-to-cycle variation" That's pure bullshit. You can't make a spark 10 times more powerful without using 10 times the power to do it, and where does this power come from? Thin air? The ether? God? A plug can only deliver slightly less power then is supplied to it. |
I've tried these in a truck. I got a little bit better gas mileage. But not worth the
cost in difference |
Yeah, new plugs always up the mileage a bit before they start to wear.
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we (NGK) have tested these spark plugs and found them to be comparable in ignitability to our V-power plugs. If you're not familiar, the V-power plugs are a basic nickel-alloy plug with a V-groove center electrode and they generally sell for around $2 a piece.
The Pulstars are around $25 a piece. Their supposed built in capacitor is nothing more than an additional air gap within the plugs body. This increases the voltage requirement to ionize the air gap, putting additional strain on your ignition system. You can get the exact same effect with a standard plug or any plug for that matter by simply opening the gap. This is why their plug produces a brighter spark, because the effective air gap of the plug is very large. They have very clever marketing ads, but ultimately they are just "HYPE" plugs. If they really worked to increase performance as much as they claim every OE manufacturer in the world would want to use them. Not dissin the product, just stating the facts Regards, |
Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
(Post 8846605)
I think the first time I ever heard of a company making these type of plugs that I can remember was the late 80s. They were tested by the US EPA and proved to be junk. Since then, about a hundred different versions have been produced and none have been on the market for more then a year.
The fact is, once the flame front has been ignited, the plug is out of the equation. You could have the most powerful spark in the world but if all that is required in a tiny arc, it's all irrelevant. Also keep in mind that the pulse plug is just a capacitor in series with the plug. It cannot create any more energy, and actually lowers spark energy because no capacitor is 100% efficient. If they were so good, they would have been on all vehicles for the past 40 years. Just reading the marketing rhetoric is enough to make you question the manufacturer. It claims things that are impossible: " but incorporate an internal capacitor to deliver a spark 10 times more powerful than a spark plug with less cycle-to-cycle variation" That's pure bullshit. You can't make a spark 10 times more powerful without using 10 times the power to do it, and where does this power come from? Thin air? The ether? God? A plug can only deliver slightly less power then is supplied to it. 1. No one has made a plug like this ever. We are the first and it was launched just 18 months ago. All the plugs you talk about are regular spark plugs with different electrodes on them...all just 50 watts peak power. 2. Of course if you ignite the flame front with a larger spark the entire fuel charge burns sooner releasing more energy in a given period of time. 3. You obviously know nothing about capacitors. Please visit Wikipedia. 4. They might have been in vehicles 40 years ago if they were around then. 5. Of course you can augment the power from any source. Its called Pulsed Power Technology and is the cornerstone of Sandia National Laboratories who helped develop Pulstar. And if you want to see how Pulstar works (the concept of power compression) just visit Sandia National Lab's Z Machine http://zpinch.sandia.gov/. By the way, ever heard of a camera flash. Same principal. 6. I would be happy to provide with a Peer Review from a Harvard Physicist. |
IDK what we're all arguing about, NGK makes the only plug for RX-7's that work right(that I know of and trust) and whether or not this makes sense for other cars I don't know either, but Aaron has a good knowledge of cars and especially RX-7's and sorry, but if he won't use them I won't either, especially for 25 bucks a pop!!
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Originally Posted by NGKTECH
(Post 8846659)
we (NGK) have tested these spark plugs and found them to be comparable in ignitability to our V-power plugs. If you're not familiar, the V-power plugs are a basic nickel-alloy plug with a V-groove center electrode and they generally sell for around $2 a piece.
The Pulstars are around $25 a piece. Their supposed built in capacitor is nothing more than an additional air gap within the plugs body. This increases the voltage requirement to ionize the air gap, putting additional strain on your ignition system. You can get the exact same effect with a standard plug or any plug for that matter by simply opening the gap. This is why their plug produces a brighter spark, because the effective air gap of the plug is very large. They have very clever marketing ads, but ultimately they are just "HYPE" plugs. If they really worked to increase performance as much as they claim every OE manufacturer in the world would want to use them. Not dissin the product, just stating the facts Regards, 1. You show me your test data and I will show you ours. It should include Southwest Research Bomb Testing, EPA US06 fuel economy and eddy current dynamometer testing by 3rd parties. I await your response or retraction. 2. We have been on the market now for 18 months and NGK has not yet sectioned one of our plugs? Are you kidding me? If you had you would know that we don't have an internal air gap, but a real capacitor. If you knew that you would also know that we do not increase voltage (or maybe you wouldn't know that). You owe this forum an apology for your outright lie. NGK should be ashamed of itself. 3. By the way, if anyone wants to see how NGK iridium compares to Pulstar in combustion testing, just visit http://www.pulstar.com/ignition-velocity.html. 4. If you only want a 50 watt spark plug (all 6 major brands are only 50 watts), then the best we have tested is Denso iridium. |
But do you offer one for the RX-7's that is comparable to the NGK??? If not, then why is this debate going on?
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hm, if pulstar gave use all their patent numbers then we could see when all the patents that are using where made. Ofcourse some patents would be old but their special technology would not. Right?
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Originally Posted by wankel1988
(Post 8852448)
But do you offer one for the RX-7's that is comparable to the NGK??? If not, then why is this debate going on?
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Hmm lets see where this goes..
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Originally Posted by yeti
(Post 8852539)
hm, if pulstar gave use all their patent numbers then we could see when all the patents that are using where made. Ofcourse some patents would be old but their special technology would not. Right?
ENERPULSE, INC. LISTING OF ASSIGNED PATENTS AND PATENT APPLICATIONS U.S. PATENTS: 1. U.S. Patent 4,589,398, issued May 20, 1986, (Application No. 06/583,694 filed February 27, 1984) titled "COMBUSTION INITIATION SYSTEM EMPLOYING HARD DISCHARGE." Status: Abandoned for failure to pay 11.5 year maintenance fee. 2. U.S. Patent 5,272,415, issued December 21, 1993, (Application No. 07/414,054 filed September 28, 1989) titled "COMBUSTION IGNITOR." Status: Expires September 28, 2009. 3. U.S. Patent 5,371,436, issued December 6, 1994, (Application No. 07/459,904 filed January 2, 1990) titled "COMBUSTION IGNITOR." Status: Expires December 6, 2011. 4. U.S. Patent 6,329,243, issued December 11, 2001 (Application No. 09/376,150 filed August 17, 1999) titled “CURRENT PEAKING SPARKPLUG.” Status: Expires August 17, 2019. US PATENT APPLICATIONS: 1. U.S. Pat. App. 60820031. Filed July 21, 2006, titled “ HIGH POWER DISCHARGE FUEL IGNITOR”. 2. U.S. Pat. App. Provisional US60/799,926. Filing date May 12, 2006, titled “Composite Spark Plug”. FOREIGN PATENT APPLICATIONS: Brazilian Pat. App. No. PI0107046-0, filed December 10, 2001, titled “CURRENT PEAKING SPARKPLUG.” Status: Examination must be requested by December 10, 2004. Canadian Pat. App. No. 2,365,138, filed December 10, 2001, titled “CURRENT PEAKING SPARKPLUG.” Status: Examination must be requested by December 10, 2006 European Pat. App. No. 01310324.7, filed December 10, 2001, titled “CURRENT PEAKING SPARKPLUG.” Status: Examination has been requested. Japanese Pat. App. No. 2001 402564 filed December 10, 2001, titled “CURRENT PEAKING SPARKPLUG.” Status: Examination must be requested by December 10, 2004. Korean Pat. App. No. 2001-0077897, filed December 10, 2001, titled “CURRENT PEAKING SPARKPLUG.” Status: Examination must be requested by December 10, 2006 Mexican Patent Application No. 01/12701, filed December 10, 2001, titled “CURRENT PEAKING SPARKPLUG.” |
ok, but you haven't answered my question, do you have one for rx7's, and if you do, why don't you send some to some of the people on here and let us try them free of charge, and give our "honest" opinions of it. I think that would say a lot about your company and let us decide for ourselves.
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like i said before, i've only heard and seen videos tested on nissan's and honda's. also heard they arent for turbocharged cars...
suppose if there's any for the NA rx7 or the rx8? where'd he go? i guess $25 x 4 = $100... $100 x 122,085members = 12,208,500 i dont think they want to do that... :P |
Originally Posted by dparker
(Post 8852400)
Amazing...100% wrong!!
1. No one has made a plug like this ever. We are the first and it was launched just 18 months ago. All the plugs you talk about are regular spark plugs with different electrodes on them...all just 50 watts peak power. 2. Of course if you ignite the flame front with a larger spark the entire fuel charge burns sooner releasing more energy in a given period of time. 3. You obviously know nothing about capacitors. Please visit Wikipedia. Are you saying that a capacitor is somehow 100% efficient and can increase the amount of energy available? Pure bunk. The most you can do is store a gradual charge and then release it over a shorter period when the plug arcs. In that case, I would expect the capacitor to be in an R/C network with the plug electrode, which does not appear to be in your plug. 4. They might have been in vehicles 40 years ago if they were around then. 5. Of course you can augment the power from any source. Its called Pulsed Power Technology and is the cornerstone of Sandia National Laboratories who helped develop Pulstar. And if you want to see how Pulstar works (the concept of power compression) just visit Sandia National Lab's Z Machine http://zpinch.sandia.gov/. By the way, ever heard of a camera flash. Same principal. Are you saying that your capacitor is in parallel with the plug gap? Your website is very, very unclear and contains almost no technical information. All I can tell from your cutaway diagram is that it looks like a capacitor in series with a spark plug. If this is not the case, I apologize for jumping to solutions and suggest you update your website with an actual schematic. 6. I would be happy to provide with a Peer Review from a Harvard Physicist. Since I have no need for your plugs (I drive RX-7s and a Honda Insight) I have no vested interest whether they fail or succeed. I just have a keen sense to smell fishy marketing. |
Originally Posted by wankel1988
(Post 8852904)
ok, but you haven't answered my question, do you have one for rx7's, and if you do, why don't you send some to some of the people on here and let us try them free of charge, and give our "honest" opinions of it. I think that would say a lot about your company and let us decide for ourselves.
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Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
(Post 8853773)
I have copies of Popular Mechanics and Popular Science from the 1950s that advertise capacitive spark plugs. Their internal design is very similar to yours.
Many manufacturers claim this, but I've never seen proof. There is only a limited area of fuel between the two electrodes which limit how much fuel is ignited. Look at the plugs used by Mazda in the rotary. They have a much better electrode design. I run what is in the top 3 largest electronics websites on the Internet. Search Google for "electronic circuits". Guess who is hit #1? Are you saying that a capacitor is somehow 100% efficient and can increase the amount of energy available? Pure bunk. The most you can do is store a gradual charge and then release it over a shorter period when the plug arcs. In that case, I would expect the capacitor to be in an R/C network with the plug electrode, which does not appear to be in your plug. See #1. I remember reading about capacitor plugs in the 80s. It's not at all the same principle of a camera flash. Most camera flash circuits are made of an R/C network to charge a large capacitor. In a strobe light, as the voltage rises, a DIAC or even a neon breaks down and conducts which triggers the gate of an SCR. The SCR conducts which allows current through a high voltage transformer to spike the bulb with a high voltage (generally around 4KV). This excites the xenon which then becomes conductive. Now the large capacitor discharges through the xenon and you get your flash. The cycle then repeats. A camera flash replaces the DIAC/neon with a manual switch or simply triggers the SCR electronically. Are you saying that your capacitor is in parallel with the plug gap? Your website is very, very unclear and contains almost no technical information. All I can tell from your cutaway diagram is that it looks like a capacitor in series with a spark plug. If this is not the case, I apologize for jumping to solutions and suggest you update your website with an actual schematic. I don't think that's necessary. What I would request if I cared enough would be his contact information so I could ask him/her myself. Since I have no need for your plugs (I drive RX-7s and a Honda Insight) I have no vested interest whether they fail or succeed. I just have a keen sense to smell fishy marketing. 3. What I am saying about capacitor efficiency is who cares? Capacitors compress electrical power without using any more supply power. This is why they can peak the power exponentially. A typical automotive coil stores about 50 mj of energy for delivery into the breakdown spark followed by the arc discharge (~200ma) and ending with the glow discharge (~50ma). The efficiency of these respective phases is 90%, 50% and 30%. At 50 pF, and 20 Kv breakdown voltage, The pulse plug has a relatively high breakdown spark which delivers approximately 10 mj of energy. The breakdown spark is a low erosion spark, enabling long electrode life even though the current peaks at the order of 1,000 amperes within a period of about 10 nanoseconds. So who cares about capacitor efficiency if you can increase peak output from 50 watts to 1 megawatt without using any more supply power? Do you understand the significance of this? 5. The capacitor in Pulstar in parallel with the coil and is located after the resistor in the plug. 6. I don't mind people asking questions of our technology (in fact, I hope they do). I do mind being called snake oil (or in your case "bullshit") from people who simply did not take the time to understand our technology, but are willing to denigrate it sight unseen just so someone with listen to them. That's just plain crap! |
Originally Posted by katkaroto
(Post 8853747)
like i said before, i've only heard and seen videos tested on nissan's and honda's. also heard they arent for turbocharged cars...
suppose if there's any for the NA rx7 or the rx8? where'd he go? i guess $25 x 4 = $100... $100 x 122,085members = 12,208,500 i dont think they want to do that... :P |
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