Shouldn't the dampner work just as well between the rails instead of being at the end of the main rail?

My info on carbed vehicles having PD's is from a MG Midget my father owns. He asked me the same question one time when I came over to help him work on his car; "What is a pulsation dampener". So there isn't any links, I guess I can work on getting you a picture. Really its only my word you can take for it now.

I am still trying to understand your experience though. Did you say you had a motor fail because you didn't use a PD?

killinfoo66: since no one "really" understands the PD, it would be arguable on how effective its position is now.

I bet not one of the anti-PD people can asnwer this one simple question.

If it's not needed, why does every EFI car have one?

It's not a hard question, but every time I ask it in these threads (many, many times...), nobody answers. Ever.

The problem I see here is that Max is giving you his experiences with his car, as well as the links to discussions and other literature on the subject, written by very knowledgeable people.

Ted on the other hand keeps telling us he has "real world" experience. He refers to "ours" and "we". In order for his comments to have ANY merit he needs to tell us who "ours" and "we" are. Otherwise it's just him making shit up. I have no problem wtih his style of arguement, but he needs to show some evidence of his experiences. I for one am not willing to be led to slaughter just because the "almighty" ReTed asks me to follow him.

There are a few people here who are saying they've done a ton of research on the topic, but when it comes to the facts their way off, leading me to believe they either didnt do the research they say they have, or they don't understand the principles involved. I'm not sure why people are fighting this tooth and nail, maybe their affraid to go back on their word and eat a little crow. From reading the links Max posted, and checking out a few books on the topic from the library of my local technical institute it's become clear to me. Regardless of the type or model of FPR a pulsation dampner is beneficial to any car that has reliability to think about.

Not to get off topic (the argument), but fstrnyou posted a good question, that I am also curious about.. What does that screw in the middle of the PD, underneath the yellow plastic cap, do? Mine was also loose, although not falling out or anything, I screwed it down a bit, then put it back on, so far my engine hasn't caught fire, should I be wary?

Thanks!
~Wonko The Sane


And now back to the argueing

I'm not anti one, Mine just didn't have one, and I never noticed anything.

RETed only posted that in has never affected any of his cars he has tuned. He only said from his testing that he had enough proof for himself. He mentioned only that it was his real world experience and not info read in an article.

On the other hand, Max came into the conversation he has a Grand National that failed because of the PD(or lack there of, he hasn't explained yet). He has even mentioned having a high output rotary car fail because of the PD(or lack there of, still no explanation). I would give him credibilty, if he said these cars failed because of no PD. I certainly don't appreciate all the name calling he is sending out.

I am not for or against having a PD, but I seriously want to know its function. Maybe its has a function to keep fuel flow constant from injector pulses? To me, my real world experience is having seen one on at least one carb'd vehicle. Besides the RX7, I don't remember having one on any of my cars(all fuel injected), so I am still looking into if they did have one. For now though I just want more info on the PD's function.

Ya I know, that's precisely the problem. What cars? What customers? What experience?

Fair enough, but let's not single anyone out for name calling lets face it Ted has done is fair share, in this a other threads.

That's what's being asked of you and others. Go and read the books Max mentioned in this and the other threads. Go and search on the web yourself. I know every honda I've owned has had a PD, that includes new and old models I can go take a picture of the one's on my CRV and Prelude that are sitting in my driveway. All you have to do is turn a tap on in your house, shut it off fast and listen to the pipes bang to realize the principles involved here.

So I pulled the "spider" & ran heat shielded rubber hose (3.5 meters total) from the firewall to the rails.
The PD stays for now, but it leaks, it's gone.
The hose is my PD..

Where's your proof?
I here a lot of claims from you, but I never hear of proof.
You keep "hiding" behind your references.

I have never heard that in my life.
All of the ones running EGT gauges have mentioned elevated EGT levels.  See the thread on NoPistons about the car Steve Kan was tuning that keeps letting go on the dyno (several times); this car is almost an identical set-up as others cars Mr. Kan has tuned, but he does mentioned elevated EGT's which cannot be explained.
It shows your ignorance on the whole subject of EGT's.  if the EGT is in it's safe range, it's next to impossible to kill a motor from detonation.  This also shows your ignorance on the relation of PD's to fuel delivery to EGT's.  If there is adverse effects from the missing PD, there *IS* going to be an adverse effect on fuel delivery.  Ergo, EGT is going to be affected due to the inconsistent EGT.  Now you're talking yourself in circles which makes no sense...which I've already claimed you're illogical.

WAG.

Again, you show your ignorance on EGT's.  Please stop claiming you know the relationship of EGT's on engine condition cause you're jsut spewing misinformation.

I don't like EGO's or UEGO's, but you're showing more ignorance on the subject again.  I'd suggest you do your homework before spewing more misinformation.

The question is this resonance affecting fuel delivery during the fuel system normal range of operation...that's the million dollar question.

Since we're just arguing in circles...how's about this deal.
You pull your PD and run an aftermarket FPR exactly how my parallel fuel rail diagram states.  If you blow the engine, I'll buy you ANY 13B engine to replace yours.  I wouldn't think you would allow me to build you an engine....pshaw...so the deal is you pick the builder (Racing Beat, Mazdatrix, Atkins, Don Marvel, R.E. Amemiya, FEED, PanSpeed, I don't care), I pay for the tab if you provide me conclusive proof the non-existance of a PD in the set-up causes the demise of your engine.

Put your money where your mouth is or JSTFU.


-Ted

Please keep this thread friendly and free of flames. Thanks.

You always seem to make it a point to state this all the time.
I dunno where you get this implication from, but it's not my intention to do so.
I think you're inferring the wrong point from my postings.

No, I think you're reading into this too literally.
I read a recent Turbo (or someting close) about PD's, and the main points were 1/2" ID fuel rail, very long fuel rails, and multi-point injection.  The FC fuel rails almost break all of these rules.

If you're talking about "scientific proof", you're right.
I do not imply my experience is a thorough, scientific proven "truth".
I'm sorry if my experience isn't good enough to change your views.
I present them as a "data point", not as an end-all answer.

You kindly forgot about the TeamFC3S forum post which you blatantly "defiled" my diagram.  THIS is what I'm most pissed about.  I really don't care about your stubborness to not believe me; I firgured it out long ago (wow, can you believe that?) that you won't believe me even if it was written in the dictionary.

http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/showth...threadid=29559

THIS is what pissed me off.
THIS is what I'm defending.
THIS is where I think you're wrong.


-Ted

And for that matter, personal arguments between Max and Ted should be taken elsewhere.

You're welcome to edit anything I say.
Hell, you're the mod, you can delete, and I can't do anything about it.
You know the history between us.
You even started a thread about me in the Mods forum, so I understand. :)


-Ted

Couldnt agree more..

Isnt the point here that you do whats best for you?

Ted removes PDs, I keep them. You dont see me and Ted arguing all day about the point...

I generally don't edit. I delete or close, then warn or ban.

I don't always see eye to eye with Ted on matters, but the diagram shown works fine, and has for many more people than just myself. The PD is in the FPR, atleast any modern "nice FPR" There does come a time when reality means more then theory. In theory, I could say this phone on my desk keeps tigers away. I don't see any tigers so it must work.

See, I told you nobody would answer my question. :rolleyes:

I answered it right here:

Course I am not anti PD.

Well you and I know why they're there. I was actually hoping for an explanation from someone who thinks they're not necessary. ;)

I gotcha!


Watch out. We are postwhoring again...:rolleyes:

Don't hold your breath sir..Trying to get Ted to explain that is like trying to push piece of rope...
And Ted, I guess the difference from my point of view and yours is mine comes from about 150 rwhp more experience...max

All I know is they suck when they leak huh rat.....:eek:

...
And how do you think I came across this?... get your cheque book out, I ran without a PD, and parallel rails, and the motor with a toasted front rotor, with injectors that drip fuel like an eye dropper...I am in the process of putting a serial looped fuel rail back in the car with a pulsation damper...
Anyone know what makes the PD screw fall out? is it the constant pulsing?
As for ignorance Ted, apparently you need a a course on reading, Where did I say EGT's, now you are just making shit up.. Again its your logic against the world, I can produce 20 books and gazillion links, on why the PD is there, however I have a hard time finding people with a high horsepower REted tuned car to back up your claims...Max

Yes, they will cause you to have to pull up the UIM a few times looking for a stupid leak..:mad: