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My TII build
***Copied from Major Projects Thread**11/13/06
Do Not read unless you want to follow the build, this is not a question or anything. This is so it can be linked in the major projects thread, per the instructions, so I figured the link should be kept in the tech section. If it's wrong, please move it and let me know. Props to Aaron Cake for starting what will hopefully wind up being a pretty cool thread. Anyway... WHO: spot_skater (James, for those who know/have met me) Summary: Turbo II Swap into an 88 SE + Haltech E8 and supporting mods to safely run lots of boost. :D WHY: Blew the NA motor in August, spent a few months looking for the right parts, and I got the deal of a life time on it in late October. [bHOW[/b]: Uh...by hand, with the help of some buddies if they wanna swing through and drink some beer and get to work. WHEN: In the process. Project began last week (Nov. 7, 2006) A few hours each day, I'm taking my time, keeping everything in decent order. Most work done during winter months of 2006-2007 Engine: Stock port J-spec motor and tranny. [/b]WHERE:: Poughkeepsie, NY. In my garage. Mods immediately going in: stage 2 competition clutch kit and pressure plate, fidanza 8 lb aluminum flywheel, FD pump, rb 2.5" dp and presilencer, corksport 3" catback, HKS SSQV BOV, bigger injectors (need to purchase), SS braided oil cooler lines, unorthodox lightweight crank pulley, Haltech E8 ECU (need harness + programming cable), mazdatrix tii tranny to NA rear driveshaft (need to purchase) and of course TII hood, and maybe some S5 tails. Work is being done in the garage at my house... Polishing of manifolds and porting will be done in my basement... Status so far... most parts acquired (see above), blown NA motor removed. Here's a few pics... First pic is from two days ago. Second and third pics are from yesterday. Today I plan on removing the turbo, putting some oil in the housings, rotating it a bit, and spraying some pblaster on all of the apex seals. I also plan on doing this to check the condition of the apex seals, so that if a rebuild is in order, I will know before attempting to start the motor/droppoing it in. The motor was said to have been sitting for about a year, and the oil has been drained. It turns freely, and seems/sounds like it has good compression. A full emissions removal will also be included in the process. Semi-Longrun plans: I am planning on using the Haltech E8 to control the electronic OMP of the S5, so I won't have to pre-mix. Stock TII TMIC will be used, and I hope to run either 10 or 12 psi of boost through the stock turbo. Although I have a spare, I'd rather save the spare for a later date to send it out to BNR for a hybrid set up. Also, to aid in the tuning, I will use HALWIN's autotune to help get a decent idle (will be using a stock s4/s5 base map (thanks Claudio!!) ) and hopefully get a tune some time this winter (DYNO) from a reputable tuner. Goal is to have the car idling/driven around my block before Christmas. How realistic is this? We'll soon find out. That's all for now. /End First Post. James PS: Recently the PSU on my computer took a shit, will upload more pics at a later date when that is back up and running. |
For the last few weeks I've been doing small, minor things. Polishing my manifolds + some brackets +oil fill tube, ported my waste gate, and acquired a bunch of parts I've needed. Pulled out the old NA engine harness and ECU, spliced out the wiper motor harness from it so I can have wipers. Also lightly cleaned my engine bay... I use lightly very loosely, considering I'm still in my garage...don't want anything to flood up.
I ordered all new intake manifold gaskets, counterweight hardware to bolt my flywheel on, a new pilot bearing (and seal) and throwout bearing. Ray Crowe at Malloy Mazda (1-703-490-8170, ask for Ray, say you are from the club) hooked me up with the stock Mazda parts, which got here in about 2-3 days. Also ordered solid motor mounts, auto meter boost and water temp gauges, got an FD fuel pump and a TII starter off the forum. Not to mention block off plates from 2751engineering.com ($40)... which I'm still waiting on. Took all emissions and un-necessary shit off the J-Spec block. Decided NOT to run the electronic OMP (connector was broken, didn't feel like repairing it). Will run synthetic mobil-1 and pre-mix in the fuel. Picked up all necessary fluids from Wal-mart/ Sam's club. A little bit of an update: Finished polishing my manifolds a week or two ago. They came out ok, considering I only sanded to 320 grit. Also ported my wastegate. I over-ported a little, so I will see if there is going to be any boost creep... Today I put my turbo back together. Kind of difficult getting it back together, the compression fittings were, at least. After actually thinking about it, it wasn't so bad. Tightened all bolts down, gave the wheel a spin, she still turned freely with no binding anywhere... still didn't touch the housings or make any noise. :bigthumb: Spent two days with some pilot bearing problems. The puller I borrowed from Autozone didn't fit in the bearing, so I tried to fill it with grease/paper and use the hydraulic grease out method. That failed as well. At some point I wound up destroying the inner race of the pilot bearing, so I removed it. That helped the puller I had borrowed fit in. A few whacks later with the slide hammer/puller and it came right out. Installed the new pilot bearing and seal and moved on. Today I olted my Fidanza 8 LB flywheel to the counterweight. Used some red Loctite on the threads, just in case. Installed the competition clutch and pressure plate, as well. Put the new throwout bearing in the TII tranny. Swapped shifters from my NA to the TII transmission, made sure it went into gear, bolted it down. Installed the clutch against the flywheel, keeping the alignment tool in the pilot bearing (damper springs facing the transmission!) and then bolted the pressure plate on. The pressure plate was kind of a bitch. The 3 guide holes used needed to be honed out a little bit (paint, I guess). Instead of getting a drill I just bolted one side in, only a few threads, then the opposite side, and kept criss-crossing. Some didn't reach with the washers on, so I took the washers off to make them reach. After they all were in a few threads, I took them out one by one, and put the washers in, one by one. Then I torqued it down to ~25 ft/lbs per FSM. Pre 89 said like 18-23, and 90-91 said 20-26 IIRC. All I know about my parts is they are S5, so I picked somewhat of a medium of 25 ft lbs. Tomorrow I am going to bolt the turbo and manifold back on, as well as bolt the transmission to the engine. Then she will go in the car. Parts still needed include: Haltech E8 wiring harness + connectors/sensor pack. Driveshaft to mate NA rear to TII transmission (Mazdatrix) TII throttle cable and some random bolts and washers and the like. Will also be doing Oil Thermo Bypass Pellet mod, as per Ted's site @ http://fc3spro.com/TECH/HOWTO/OTB/otb.html My computer is still down, so no pics right now. They will be uploaded in the future. James |
Awesome build, James :-P
Hopefully mine will go somewhat smoothly >.> |
In for the pics :D
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Where in NY did you say you were from again? I think I remember the Albany area right? Once I'm done with Final Exams a week from Wednesday, I'd love to come out and give you a hand. It would be wicked cool to check out the build and take some pics. I could even post them while I was there on my laptop if you don't mind a Geneseo guy hangin out for a few hours. Let me know. Sound killer so far.
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SOUNDING good james, sorry i cant come thru tomorrow, seems i have a similar issue like 1990RX..finals are just around the corner
GOod luck kid Jason NYC NYRA President www.nyrotary.com |
Maybe we should wait until after finals, rocket, when spot has dropped his engine and bring him a case of beer. We'll celebrate rotary style. Smoke some cigars, rev the engine, and get sh!tty. What do you think?
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Guys, gotta remember I'm only 20. -insert teal- I don't drink -end teal-
:beer: Some time in the summer I'm looking to have an NYRA get together at my house. Kegs, pool, sunshine, crack, bbq, roast a pig, etc. As for an update... Turbo is back on the motor. Decided NOT to use the unorthodox racing pulley, after reading a horror story about someone installing one, and even professional shops having trouble with them on occasion. IMO, the gains are not worth it at this time...maybe at a later date will I use it. Another choice I made is NOT to use the elctronic OMP, and to go pre-mix. I don't remember if I wrote that in any of my last posts. Also, the other day I installed my flywheel, pressure plate and clutch, so today I bolted the transmission to the block. They are both sitting in my garage/driveway, going to be dropped in a little later today. ALNY93R1 may come by to give me a hand dropping it in a little later today. MMR-Direct engine mounts are in place, as well. They have an aluminum core encased in UHMW... whatever that means. They feel basically solid to me. http://www.mmr-direct.com/catalog1/R...mnt2_small.jpg What else... I still need to get my haltech harness and the sensor pack. I'm going to give Speed Machine a call tomorrow when I get home from work, then I'm going to give Mazdatrix a call and get the driveshaft I need. My apologies once again for the lack of photos. I'm still waiting for my power supply for my other computer to come. I have snapped a few pictures so far, though. So this is definitely happening. Like I said in my first post, my goal is to have the car idling/driving around my block at or before Christmas. I've still got a little over three weeks. That would be a nice Christmas gift for myself. What would be even nicer is if none of the seals on this J-Spec are shot... James |
And if they are...yay! More learning! :-D
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Originally Posted by 1990RXHeaven
Maybe we should wait until after finals, rocket, when spot has dropped his engine and bring him a case of beer. We'll celebrate rotary style. Smoke some cigars, rev the engine, and get sh!tty. What do you think?
Jason NYC |
coming along well bro, it's good to see people taking initiative.
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what rebuild kit are you using? apex seals? springs? o ring kit?, im going to take apart my jspec 13b this week. it has bad compression on rear rotor...
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None. It seems to have good compression.
If it does wind up needing a rebuild I will go with all Mazda OEM seals, along with an aggressive port. |
Go with Rotary Aviations big a$$ seals. They will never blow and you can turn your car into an airplane someday. I believe they are 3mm seals, or maybe 3mm is stock, I can't remember which. Either way, call up Tracy Crook and he'll set you straight. Great guy all around and you'll never meet anybody more knowledgeable on Rotary than him.
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Why would he go with 3mm seals?
RX7's come with 2mm stock. They will never blow? Are you saying, that it will run FOREVER? OMG?! FAIL. |
Thanks for the advice and stuff like that guys. But I want to try to keep this somewhat designated for this project, and not clutter the thread with opinions on what's best for stuff that might not even pertain to the car. IE a rebuild on an engine whose condition is overall, unknown.
If it does wind up needing a rebuild, or I have any other questions, you can be sure I will do my reading and ask some questions to the forum. For what it's worth... regarding apex seals, the seals in the J-spec seem to be in good shape. One may be slightly stuck, but I feel after being run for a bit should loosen up. If it does wind up needing a rebuild, I would go with the OEM 2mm apex seals, and like I said, a large aggressive port and all other necessary internal oil/coolant mods. Thanks, James |
Sorry about that then. I'l keep the suggestions for other threads, although I don't exactly appreciate the "FAIL" comment from adrock. I was only trying to be helpful.
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Well James computer went kaboom. So i wanted to post a lil update on his behalf. Today me , james and alex (ALNY93R1) put in the Engine and tranny into the car. After james finds the harness and the other necessary items he needs, he will begin putting everything together slowly but surely.
We had a suprise guest Peter (hellisholds77), he copped a fender from me. So here are a few pics of todays events. This is the NA engine that went Kaboom. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38...p/PICT7286.jpg http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38...p/PICT7288.jpg The new home for the Jspec t2 engine http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38...p/PICT7293.jpg Engine on the hoist http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38...p/PICT7297.jpg Taking off the main pulley. James wanted to put the washers on the thermo pellet, but they were to big in diameter and wouldnt clear, so he decided to do it another day. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38...p/PICT7302.jpg Engine Close up http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38...p/PICT7305.jpg New MMR motormounts (There threaded all the way thru WTF lol) http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38...p/PICT7310.jpg James and Peter (doing nothing lol) http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38...p/PICT7315.jpg Oil Metering pump blocked off http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38...p/PICT7330.jpg Thats me! http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38...p/PICT7333.jpg I love pics lol Jason NYC |
Alex wiggling the engine into the bay, while james is under the car guiding it. I handled the Floor jack for the tranny and the engine hoist ( so i did nothing) For the most part james held the tranny by himself (MAN UP!)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38...p/PICT7341.jpg http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38...p/PICT7347.jpg http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38...p/PICT7361.jpg Time to get out! Watch ure nuts http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38...p/PICT7352.jpg http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38...p/PICT7354.jpg Finally in http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38...p/PICT7358.jpg Good food! http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38...p/PICT7384.jpg Cant forget the illest rotary FAN!!!!!!!!! http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38...p/PICT7281.jpg Jason NYC |
damn jay, dont kid yourself, you know i did half that shit, haha.
but on a serious note...one hell of a project there, james. good job and good luck for the long run. it was nice finally meeting you also and thanks for the fender jay, although it wont go on till xmas...lol |
Hey peter thanks for all your HELP, your assistance will be needed again soon!.
We are all a big happy NYRA (www.nyrotary.com) family. James will document the build very well, and hopefully will be saved for others such as yourselves can use. Jason NYC |
Shit, I came back to this thread to throw in an update, but Jason beat me to it. With pics and all. Thanks.
It really wasn't too bad, just one thing kind of fucked us for about a half an hour. I didn't realize the threaded part (rod?) of the MMR mounts could be moved up and down/in and out of the mounts themselves. So we tried to squeeze them in to the mount brackets, with no room to spare, with the rod ends being dragged all across the front subframe and shit. After a bit I realized they could be moved, and the engine fell in pretty nicely. I still need to tighten up the transmission mounts, and the hardware on the upper part of the engine mounts... the tranny is still being somewhat held up by the floor jack. I'll take care of that today. Then start putting the manifolds on, maybe bolt on the downpipe and presilencer. Can't put the CS catback on yet, cause I think I'm gonna need one more gasket... but I need to see if I have one, I might. Also...need to connect the oil and water lines for the turbo, and plug unnecessary vacuum lines that I won't be using... like the ones for the OMP on the LIM. Maybe block off the BAC, too, and consider ripping out the rest of the wiring in the engine bay... but I think I might save that for a different project. Ah, almost forgot, I'm gonna need to install my FD fuel pump, and the other SS braided oil cooler line I have sitting in my hatch. Gotta take the steel hood off the roof, though. Shit. I need to swap power steering pumps, too. Forgot about that. Whoever took this motor out of the othe car cut the hardlines going to the PS pump... and I really don't feel like making new lines, or going without power steering. I like it. That's it for now. A big thanks to Al (ALNY93R1) with the high 400+hp gt35r FD, and Jason with his low mileage S4 FC. Peter (hellisholds7), it was nice to meet you. James |
It was my pleasure james. Drove 160+ miles yesterday round trip from NYC, was a very Long ass ride, next time i come up ill stay for the weekend (if thats okay), so we can maximize our work time on the car.
So once you get all the necessary items you need, let me know. I got finals coming up so im going to be awol for a minute. I got all of january off, so let me whats up so i can help you kid. It would off been a much better ride if i couldve taken the fc up there..... See ya laters ( I couldnt wait mani had to post the pics, ya know me!) Jason NYC NYRA President www.nyrotary.com |
will a fd fuel pump fit into a fc gas tank, and if so do u have to mod it at all to adapt
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Should be a direct drop-in replacement. At least that's what I've read. I'll find out soon enough.
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Got off the phone with Mazdatrix an hour or so ago. My driveshaft is on it's way.
Got off the phone with SpeedMachine a few minutes ago, all of my Haltech parts are on their way (programming cable, wiring loom, coolant temp sensor + connector, air temp sensor + connector) James |
^Nice james, i can come thru after xmas im free. What ever is not done ill come thru and we can finish some of the work =)
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Small update...
Engine and transmission are mounted in, snug snug, nice nice. Connected the oil line on my turbo, and did most of the vacuum capping/emissions removal. I took a few pics of that. Some time tomorrow I'm probably going to head out to the local metal place (it's on my way back from work), see if they can cut me some aluminum so I can make a dual pod for my gauges, plan on situating it under where the radio will go, and I need to make a cover for the bottom of my bellhousing, so I can keep shit from getting all over the clutch and flywheel. Haven't done any other work since, but this weekend I will lay into the car. Hopefully tomorrow I will get at least one of the things I ordered, and over the weekend my new laptop should arrive, along with the rest of my parts. When that happens I'll update this thread with some more photos. James |
Originally Posted by riceburner1r2001
will a fd fuel pump fit into a fc gas tank, and if so do u have to mod it at all to adapt
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First delay.
Gotta pull the engine back out. I think I destroyed the front thrust bearing when I was messing with the main bolt/pulley to do the oil bypass mod. Involves removing oil pan, as well. After doing the oil pan on my old motor with the engine still in, I am just going to pull the engine out (leaving the tranny in) and do it outside of the car, along with the work to the thrust bearing. My new laptop came, so I will be uploading some more pictures shortly after I get it all set up. Cliffnotes: I fucked up. Not 100% sure if there is a real problem, but there is a doubt in my mind that everything is good. Rather than fucking up shit in this motor when I go to start it, I'd rather be on the safe side. James |
Recap of the day... The morning started off bright and early, around 7 am. Spent a few hours reading the forums, and some shit on how badly things can turn out if you take out the main bolt and pulley off a 13B and it's variants.
Talked to a buddy who I trust a lot, who happens to be in the middle of a 700+ RX3 drag car project (13B-RX3) and he had me convinced that my thrust washer may have been destroyed. So I took the engine out, set it on the floor, on the pressure plate...maybe not the best idea, but I think it should be fine. Took off the oil pan, front cover, main bolt, main pulley, oil pump, CAS drive gear, and front stationary gear. Doing so allowed me access to check the thrust bearing, which had NOT fallen off its spacer. Basically, all that work was for peace of mind. While I had everything apart I did what I had tried to do... the oil thermo bypass mod. Put a few M7 washers in there, and it's good to go. Just gotta get a new front cover gasket, then I will be dropping the motor back in the car. James |
Some toys came today.
My driveshaft from Mazdatrix arrived today. A TII throttle cable arrived, that I bought from another member/friend off the boards. And also my Haltech Harness and coolant temp and intake air temp sensors came. What an exciting day. Now I'm waiting on a water pump housing gasket and a front cover gasket to come from Malloy, which I ordered today. Once those come, I will put the motor back together (relatively), drop it back in the car, then put it all together. I also got in touch with a semi-local tuner, T&R Racing (www.rx7s.com), who are based out of Queens, NY. I told them my situation/plans, and they gave me a quote and said when I am ready for a tune to give them a call back and set a date. Parts are just about all here, minus small things (vac lines, etc). I took some pics, but I'm currently waiting on a serial -> USB adapter to post pics, and to be able to tune the Haltech with. My laptop doesn't have an RS-232 port. When I can post pics, I will. James |
im learnding! good job on the build
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Another delay. Found out a few days ago my brother is moving to Las Vegas.
On Friday the two of us will be starting the drive out there (I live in NY...~2500 miles). I hope to be flying back on Sunday. This will be a weekend lost. I'm going to try to get the engine back in the car this week, after I put it back together, and slap the LIM on, route a few vac lines necessary, along with the fuel rails. Then I'm going to start the haltech harness install/ wire job. It's a non-terminated loom, so I have a little bit of work to do. .... spot skater: now that i'm going to vegas spot skater: i don't think my engine will be running by xmas NycRotaryRocket: hah i told u it wasnt NycRotaryRocket: u had visions of grandeur spot skater: fuck you spot skater: i'm blaming it on the fact that i'm losing an entire weekend due to driving 2500 miles Jerk... James |
Back from Vegas. My serial adapter came, and I got it working.
Here's some pics. Oil Pan and main pulley removed. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE012.jpg Water pump housing bolts removed. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE013.jpg Water pump housing removed. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE014.jpg Front Cover removed. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE015.jpg CAS gear, oil pump and chain removed. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE016.jpg Front stationary gear removed, to show rear needle bearing, which was not dislodged off it's spacer. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE017.jpg Shimmed eccentric thermo oil bypass deally. I used 5 M7 washers, IIRC. It needs to be shimmed at least 6mm, I think I went to 7.5-8. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE018.jpg Primed Engine Bay. I didn't remove everything...mostly cause I didn't feel like it. One coil couldn't be removed, I think the studs just kept spinning, so I left it there, and was careful when painting around it, along with other connectors, etc. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE036.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE037.jpg |
Here's some more.
Haltech harness split into the 34 pin connector, and 26 pin connector (I think those are the right numbers), and also split again to main power, with ground by itself, and an aux in or two dangling. E8 ECU pictured, as well, along with sensors. Second picture is just additional... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE038.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE039.jpg After looking at the wiring diagram that I printed out of the instruction booklet, a few colors were off. I downloaded a different wiring diagram, and traced all wires to their respective pins/relays, just to make sure they were all correct. |
First coat of semi-flat in the engine bay.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE042.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE041.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE040.jpg |
Quick update. Got some of the motor back together. Front cover and oil pan are back on. I took some sandpaper to both mating surfaces for the oil pan, along with those for the front cover, to clean off any excess gasket material or extra shit.
Water pump housing is not attached yet, because I need to tap the stock sensor's location to fit the new Haltech Coolant Temp Sensor. Also threw a second coat of semi-flat black in the engine bay. Still have some touching up to do on that, a few random places. Pics: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE043.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE044.jpg I used some washers to help put more even force all around the oil pan. I used RTV 'on the pan, by the way. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE045.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE046.jpg |
erm, dont take this thw wrong way, but you really should have prepped the engine bay better
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Originally Posted by staticguitar313
erm, dont take this thw wrong way, but you really should have prepped the engine bay better
Thanks for the response, all are welcome, and I will take all into consideration, good and bad. This is a learning process for me, as well. I'm sure there will be things that others would have done differently, and that I should have done differently. Hopefully this will help others doing a similar project in the long run. James |
Finally found the NPT tap I needed. Tapped the hole for the Intake Air Temp sensor, going to do the coolant temp sensor on Monday, most likely... plans for the weekend do not include working on the car. Here's a few pics.
Stock mounting hole. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE051.jpg The stuff I used. 5/8" Drill bit, 3/8" NPT Tap, sensors, no pic of drill. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE052.jpg Hole drilled out/ enlarged. Tons of metal shavings on the table.. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE053.jpg New sensor threaded in with some Teflon Tape. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/IMAGE054.jpg |
Got some work done since the last update. The motor is now back in the car. LIM and exhaust manifold + turbo are bolted on. In this photo I was just mocking everything up, so to speak, to put my mind at ease that I had everything I needed to have this run. All I am waiting for now is injector clips, so I can then run my haltech in as close to a day as possible. I also need a turbo to downpipe gasket, and a 3 bar map sensor. Then she should be good to fire up. Here is a picture.
...Also have to plug in the connectors for the wiper motor and run vac lines, and plug stuff I won't be using. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...Picture002.jpg James |
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