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Installed K&n Cone Filter And Adapter, Now Runs Like Crap
88 gxl, car ran fine before, all was installed corrrect, installed a conicical filter, and maf adapter, now there is a high rpm miss i think, power seemed great till like 6000 rpm, then went flat.
any input would be great is there less cold air now that vent duct over radiator is not hooked up? |
more air flow, probably hotter air...
is the AFM level? the flapper should move parallel with the ground so that gravity won't pull the door open or closed (even if just a little) so they say on the forums |
pretty sure its level
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Originally Posted by flatblacksleeper
(Post 7415298)
88 gxl, car ran fine before, all was installed corrrect, installed a conicical filter, and maf adapter, now there is a high rpm miss i think, power seemed great till like 6000 rpm, then went flat.
any input would be great is there less cold air now that vent duct over radiator is not hooked up? |
just because the air was warmer it wouldn't cause the car to run shitty.
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Originally Posted by rotorman85
(Post 7415438)
Of course the car wont make power after 6k rpm's..I would double check all your connect's and make sure you have everything connected right.
it started breakin up at full throttle, third gear, like 5500 rpm and up |
check for leaks?
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i visually did, i will with propellant tomorrof
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Someone told me a while back that your car will run lean after installing intake and exhaust. You should try some TII injectors for secondaries or maybe a new fuel pump. I had the same issue but in your case it could be anything, like a bad O2 sensor perhaps.
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exhaust maybe.....open filter will probably cause your car to run richer due to less air going into the engine.......more airflow of hotter air = less air mass overall
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get it dynoed asap...intake and exhaust mods can make the car leaner or richer...and it would probably help if the filter was not exposed to hot air...hotter intake air = less power
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should i put the airbox back in, and do a drop in filter?
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Good Idea!!!!
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get a new fuel filter
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Just on that, has anyone done a write up for putting the K&N into the stock airbox? I had a look at it and it didnt look all that possible. Any help would be great!
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Originally Posted by flamin-roids
(Post 7415640)
Someone told me a while back that your car will run lean after installing intake and exhaust. You should try some TII injectors for secondaries or maybe a new fuel pump. I had the same issue but in your case it could be anything, like a bad O2 sensor perhaps.
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i have not replaced fuel filter yet, might help, car was on a 1/8th tank, would that kill me?
but car always ran rich, and ran strong before a stupid cone filter ............i was talking about the k&n thats a factory square filter, thats called a drop in, instead of the cone filter........... |
Originally Posted by flamin-roids
(Post 7415640)
Someone told me a while back that your car will run lean after installing intake and exhaust. You should try some TII injectors for secondaries or maybe a new fuel pump. I had the same issue but in your case it could be anything, like a bad O2 sensor perhaps.
Originally Posted by detonation
(Post 7415695)
get it dynoed asap...intake and exhaust mods can make the car leaner or richer...and it would probably help if the filter was not exposed to hot air...hotter intake air = less power
A simple troubleshooting step would be to remove the K&N filter and see if the car improves. If so, then the issue is with the filter. What was done with the air pump line that would normally be connected to the airbox? |
Seriously i ran the K&N filter on my 87 GXL for about 2 years with no problem's and telling this guy to dyno his car and to upgrade his injector's is just ridiculous!
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check your grounds, lol
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Originally Posted by flatblacksleeper
(Post 7415298)
is there less cold air now that vent duct over radiator is not hooked up?
Originally Posted by flamin-roids
(Post 7415640)
Someone told me a while back that your car will run lean after installing intake and exhaust.
Originally Posted by flamin-roids
(Post 7415640)
You should try some TII injectors for secondaries or maybe a new fuel pump.
Originally Posted by Snailz
(Post 7415867)
Just on that, has anyone done a write up for putting the K&N into the stock airbox? I had a look at it and it didnt look all that possible. Any help would be great!
2. Unscrew the screws on the stock air box. 3. Remove the cover of the stock air box. 4. Remove the old air filter. 5. Install the K&N air filter. 6. Replace the cover of the stock air box. 7. Install the air box screws. 8. Nominate Evil Aviator for a Nobel Peace Prize for writing this complicated and innovative process. |
i left the hose off to the air pump, since i have no cats and air pump is disconnected for now.
i made 2 brackets, leveled the maf out, full tank of gas, and made a air scoop to the filter based off the oem scoop over the radiator. we will see what happens
Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
(Post 7416113)
There's no reason to upgrade the fuel system, and there's no reason to spend $100 an hour to book a dyno on a car where there is no way to tune the fuel curve.
A simple troubleshooting step would be to remove the K&N filter and see if the car improves. If so, then the issue is with the filter. What was done with the air pump line that would normally be connected to the airbox? |
Evil, I think he meant using a cone filter in the stock box. It's been a while since I've looked at the stock box, so I dunno if that would work or not.
But you get my nomination! Double check all of your hoses + wires for lose connections. |
just got back, ran strong, no miss/flatness, very responsive
makes a sloppy air sucking noise at low rpm though.....i can only hear it with windows open this is my first mass air car, so that may be it, may be the air flyin past the vane |
Mine doesn't sound sloppy. When I'm on the throttle a bit, I can hear the 'bark' of the intake.
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Originally Posted by flatblacksleeper
(Post 7416618)
i made 2 brackets, leveled the maf out, full tank of gas, and made a air scoop to the filter based off the oem scoop over the radiator.
we will see what happens
Originally Posted by flatblacksleeper
just got back, ran strong, no miss/flatness, very responsive
I'm guessing that the two new brackets just positioned the AFM properly. Now you can ditch that OEM air feed since it's doing nothing whatsoever. |
Originally Posted by incubuseva
(Post 7416729)
Evil, I think he meant using a cone filter in the stock box. It's been a while since I've looked at the stock box, so I dunno if that would work or not.
Originally Posted by incubuseva
(Post 7416729)
EvilBut you get my nomination!
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How are you getting any pressure to activate your Auxilary ports?...suggestion..wire them open,(just as a TEST)..go for another spin..does it Operate Better Now in the Higher RPM's?.
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i have the vacuum line hooked up, i have the bonez race pipe, had a line tapped into it, so my ports should be working
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low rpm air suck sounds choppy, the higher smooooooth air suck,lol
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That sounds about right.
So the only 'problem' that you're having is with the sound of it? |
yeah, runs great
i think its the mass air making the noise.....the vane door |
Originally Posted by flatblacksleeper
(Post 7420094)
yeah, runs great
i think its the mass air making the noise.....the vane door |
Originally Posted by Evil Aviator
(Post 7420148)
The stock air boxes on most cars are designed to reduce intake noise. It will make that noise even if you remove the AFM and install a standalone EMS. If it really bothers you then make a "cold air" box around the filter. The box will not silence the noise as much as the stock box, but it will help some.
only caveat is, you have to cut into the body to get cold air to the filter. If you install one of thouse headlight ducts, the aerodynamic profile of the FC will start pulling air out of the duct until you go above a certain speed! (methinks it is either 60 or 120). |
Originally Posted by Roen
(Post 7429024)
and give you more power!
Originally Posted by Roen
(Post 7429024)
only caveat is, you have to cut into the body to get cold air to the filter.
[QUOTE=Roen;7429024]If you install one of thouse headlight ducts, the aerodynamic profile of the FC will start pulling air out of the duct until you go above a certain speed! (methinks it is either 60 or 120).[QUOTE] That is one of those wonderful internet myths. The small amount of dynamic pressure produced will never counter the ram air going into the duct. The two main problems with typical headlight ducts are that they are too small, and/or do not work well when the headlight is raised. |
[QUOTE=Evil Aviator;7430231]It only gives more power if it is designed correctly.
That is not necessarily true. It all depends on how you go about the process. [QUOTE=Roen;7429024]If you install one of thouse headlight ducts, the aerodynamic profile of the FC will start pulling air out of the duct until you go above a certain speed! (methinks it is either 60 or 120). That is one of those wonderful internet myths. The small amount of dynamic pressure produced will never counter the ram air going into the duct. The two main problems with typical headlight ducts are that they are too small, and/or do not work well when the headlight is raised. How would you suggest getting air to the filter? Build a box with a cutout and use the stock feeder tube to flow air into the box? I thought the aerodynamic profile of the FC details which way the air flows as it interacts with the body at speed? |
Originally Posted by Roen
(Post 7430263)
I would think that as long as you have a cone, which flows better than stock, and a means of ensuring that the air it receives is close to ambient temp, it will produce more power than stock.
Originally Posted by Roen
(Post 7430263)
How would you suggest getting air to the filter? Build a box with a cutout and use the stock feeder tube to flow air into the box?
http://www.mazdatrix.com/faqpics/roadrace/ep01123ib.jpg
Originally Posted by Roen
(Post 7430263)
I thought the aerodynamic profile of the FC details which way the air flows as it interacts with the body at speed?
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The k&n handbook doesn't specify a hp increase for fc's. For the money, its a waste anyways
I worked at advance auto up till about 2 hours ago |
Originally Posted by Evil Aviator
(Post 7431470)
That would be true assuming that the custom air box, plumbing, and filter have a total flow that is better than stock. The problem is that a lot of custom air intakes are not designed properly, and have more restriction than stock, which negates the higher flowing filter, and sometimes even results in lower engine performance. If you think about it, since the stock car already has an ambient air intake, temperature will be a constant, so the goal of a custom intake would be to optimize the pressure (or in non-engineering internet forum terms you would want to reduce the restriction).
For a stock non-turbo engine, I recommend just sticking with the stock air box. For a turbocharged engine, you can simply build a deflector type shroud to keep the radiator discharge air away from your cone intake. The stock feeder tube is a bit small and convoluted for a high-performance application. A good functional high-performance intake looks something like this: http://www.mazdatrix.com/faqpics/roadrace/ep01123ib.jpg When I uploaded that picture several years ago, I intended it to help out forum members, but it appears to have confused them more, lol. It simply shows the pressure vectors around the car while it is at speed. While you would want to try and place your various ducts in the high pressure areas for best results, even the lowest pressure areas are not capable of sucking the air backwards and starving a ram air inlet. The only restriction I can think of is air starvation, if you use a box, such as the Mariah Box, and cut a slot for the stock air tube to feed air into. Put a high flowing cone filter like a K&N or APEX'i and you should have a decent cold air cone intake. |
Originally Posted by Roen
(Post 7432567)
Um.....that's a picture of a filtered ITB setup.....something that's beyond the scope of this discussion.
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[rant]
I thought we were sticking intake upgrades using the stock throttle body. If intake was completely free, I would've brought up ITB's a long time ago. Still, from what I've been told, the best part of our induction system is the throttle body, and an ITB on a stock engine would probably be good for only 5 hp. I'm still unsure how much a filter impacts the ITB setup. A lot of S2000 guys say that their filter robs upwards of 40 hp from their ITB setup . While that number is a bit high to be believable, alternatives do exist such as mesh screens or running open ITB's. While that last option isn't recommended for the street, a lot of S2000 guys run it without problems. I'm not as brave, and can't wait until I hear one of them complain about sucking in a large rock that made its way into the engine bay, or something similar. Still, no filter restriction does mean max power. [/rant] |
Originally Posted by Roen
(Post 7434086)
I thought we were sticking intake upgrades using the stock throttle body. If intake was completely free, I would've brought up ITB's a long time ago.
Originally Posted by Roen
(Post 7434086)
I'm still unsure how much a filter impacts the ITB setup. A lot of S2000 guys say that their filter robs upwards of 40 hp from their ITB setup . While that number is a bit high to be believable, alternatives do exist such as mesh screens or running open ITB's. While that last option isn't recommended for the street, a lot of S2000 guys run it without problems. I'm not as brave, and can't wait until I hear one of them complain about sucking in a large rock that made its way into the engine bay, or something similar. Still, no filter restriction does mean max power.
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I don't see how a filter would increase flow at higher rpm's...i mean, isn't a filter a restriction, even on an ITB?
I still think using a box similar to mariah's, possibly made of ABS plastic for better heat shielding capabilities and extending the stock plastic air tube into the airbox would make for a decent cold air setup on a stock induction system. |
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